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Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

So this will be the thread that I will use to design and fabricate a single-piece headlight assembly for the 1987/1988 Thunderbirds.

Purpose of this build:

1. Single piece headlight assembly with no seams between
2. Use a completely clear lens. Ditch the sloppy light control and losses that fluted lenses create.
3. Assembly must bolt up to the stock header panel holes and NOT require cutting the header panel
4. Use one or more projectors for the headlight
5. Utilize LEDs only, including the headlights
6. Keep high beam, likely using a HID projector with solenoid
5. Provide adequate heatsinking for LEDs that are installed.

What this build will NOT incorporate:

1. A way to "replace" bulbs, since I will be using LEDs, they should last forever. Any replacement would require dis-assembly and removal of dead LED, then installation of new LED. After all, by the time an LED fails, there should be much better ones out there to use at that time.
2. The initial build will not be made from a mold that can be cast with resin in the future. If a housing and lens assembly can be found to work, I MAY make a mold for other people to buy castings of, then design their own internal headlight designs. I will not make multiple of these headlights to sell due to the complexity that the first attempt to have.

Foreseen issues to resolve:

1. How to aim the projector assembly? This includes rotation, vertical, and horizontal.
2. How to form the lens over such a wide headlamp assembly and get the sides to wrap around enough to provide a good seal all around. This may just work, but it will take some practice with s sheets first.
3. What can be done to make the entire headlight assembly look filled out? We have one large headlamp, and two fairly big marker lights. The huge amount of surface to do things with so that the headlights look good will be difficult to design. I'm not that creative.
4. What kind of heat will I experience if all heatsink fins are contained within the headlight assembly? This provides thawing of the lenses, but it is also an enclosed environment that can heat up when pushing 40-50 Watts of heat into the housing, and the output diminishes as the LEDs heat up. This will just need some test results with a thermometer.

Any and all ideas and aide will be appreciated. On that topic, anyone have any busted TC inner marker lights? I have a spare set of outer markers, headlight aiming brackets, and housings. I also have a headerpanel to mock this all up on. I also have plenty of mediocre quality (3M) fiberglass from using one of those $50 off $100 home depot coupons. Either way, I think most of the housing will be made out of aluminum rather than any sort of resin.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #1 –
So start, I put 4 emitters next to one another, each about an inch away with the two edge ones aimed inward, the front half of a projector housing, and took a picture of what the light distribution looks like on the ceiling. The left and right sides of the beam were cutoff by the desk lamps, one of which you can see in the lower right.

Moving the LEDs closer together will provide much more even distribution of light. This proves to me that LEDs WILL work. The front half of the projector was held 1 inch above the LEDs. There is a lot of light loss as I have no reflector currently to keep the LED's light going through the projector's lens. I would be surprised if even 10% of the light is making it through the small projector opening above the cutoff and in between everything else. Now the question is how do I capture this light without keeping the full depth of a projector. The emitters can't be moved forward since the lens is focused on the point where the cutoff shield resides. I will have to play with some things, and aluminum foil, to see what I can do.

If I could get more distance, I'd expect the cutoff to shift from yellow to blue.

1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #2 –
I've been tinkering with this a little, and I've determined that my LED headlamps will NOT be projector based.  The reason is that my array has to be so close to the shield that I can't get a wide enough pattern from them. I'm using a Bridgelux BXRA-C2002-00E00 with an old Core2Duo aluminum/copper HS. I've decided to investigate reflector optics, but I've yet determine how to produce an upper cutoff. I've also thought about a inverted chrome cone to spread the output out into a wider reflector.  I'm pretty sure Audi's LED headlights are reflector based.  I'd really like a good close look at one...

I know Seek likes the multiple LED idea, but that C2002 makes 3000 lumens at 17.5v. Just sayin.

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #3 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;401790
I've been tinkering with this a little, and I've determined that my LED headlamps will NOT be projector based.  The reason is that my array has to be so close to the shield that I can't get a wide enough pattern from them. I'm using a Bridgelux BXRA-C2002-00E00 with an old Core2Duo aluminum/copper HS. I've decided to investigate reflector optics, but I've yet determine how to produce an upper cutoff. I've also thought about a inverted chrome cone to spread the output out into a wider reflector.  I'm pretty sure Audi's LED headlights are reflector based.  I'd really like a good close look at one...

I know Seek likes the multiple LED idea, but that C2002 makes 3000 lumens at 17.5v. Just sayin.

I was thinking of trying a large emitter, only due to the evenness of light and simpler point source. I will have to play with some things a bit more though.

As for the simplest way to get a cutoff - it doesn't look pretty, but you put emitters side by side, create a "visor" made of a reflective material, and you'll get your cutoff. Basically you have your LEDs visible, and it doesn't look pretty like a projector, but it works. You can even make a very small change in the surface to get a step like projectors have. You still get good width due to how wide some emitters throw light, or you can make use of the side markers to get some extra light on the side, like many manufacturers currently do when implementing LEDs. I started doing this with some aluminum stock for a bicycle light, but the alumiweld cut a hole directly through my metal......I'm currently picking out a hobby-level TIG welder. I think a Dynasty 165 will do well for the time being, although everyone seems to love the Syncowave 200/250 units MUCH more and the ability to do thicker aluminum would be nice at some point I'm sure.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #4 –
What about a collimator?  A 60mm collimator inside the projector bowl might get me a better dispersal and maybe work out to a better use of the projector.  POL makes these for bridgelux arrays.  I'm still on the lookout for a good driver, too.  Have you worked with these?

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #5 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;401801
What about a collimator?  A 60mm collimator inside the projector bowl might get me a better dispersal and maybe work out to a better use of the projector.  POL makes these for bridgelux arrays.  I'm still on the lookout for a good driver, too.  Have you worked with these?

I have two of the H6FLEX drivers, but not the B6.

The problem is I want to find a way to distribute the light WITHOUT using the reflector portion of a projector. We don't have much depth to work with, if I want to keep the headlight assembly entirely in front of the header panel. While I'm fine with chopping them up to fit more in there, I have a lot more options and less worries IF I can get the light source to fit in shallow enough of an area. I'm not sure this is possible though, a there are no projectors with an extremely short focal length for the lens. If there was, the lens would probably be so tall that it would make up for any other space savings to be found with the shorter focal length...I think an array of LEDs to create a wall of light just behind the cutoff shield is the only way to effectively get a good beam without needing another 2-3" behind the lens mount.

I should add that my comment earlier about using a "visor" to create a cutoff would also create a ton of foreground light if no other optics are used, not the light that you need up higher to fill in further distances. The useful light is up higher, which you can see with any car headlight where most of the light is near the "cutoff" point.

I should have some time tomorrow to play with some optics. I also have a TSX projector coming to play with since it has about the shortest focal length available for projectors. Of course it has no high beam but I will work with what I can. I will also review what people have done lately with LEDs and their beam quality as it may help give me some ideas. I would love to get something put together for some beam shots against a wall though, then play from there. Holding a projector up makes it difficult to get pictures.

I also had to put my tail light project on hold last night as I need some more screws and insulating washers before the LEDs can be mounted and everything put together. All the machining is done though and ready for bolting everything together.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #6 –
If the collimator does it's job, I shouldn't need to screw with focal depth.  With that big array, I need a boost driver.  The H6Flex is a buck driver.  Are they any good, the ones you're using?

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #7 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;401812
If the collimator does it's job, I shouldn't need to screw with focal depth.  With that big array, I need a boost driver.  The H6Flex is a buck driver.  Are they any good, the ones you're using?

But the collimator has quite a bit of its own depth (1.5"). I'm not sure there would even be a benefit of using one on a larger LED die that provides even light, as it would likely destroy the beam width that you could gain a bit from by using a reflector instead. Again, it needs testing through, and a reflector to help get the light through the 1/2" opening in the projector.

I don't have any long-term testing, but the general consensus is that the h6 drivers haven't failed in any of the products I've seen them used in. Heatsinking the things are very easy, so high loads don't concern the driver in any way. I'll have to look again, but if I remember right, their boost driver was more efficient than their buck driver?

Their driver offerings have been expanding lately. I believe the boost driver is relatively new?
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #8 –
I'm not sure the C2002 is very usable as a car headlight The 5500-7000K color temperature (the higher luminous rated LED will likely be of higher color temperature) would really work against you, as would the 65 CRI rating. The N1203 is much better suited but only good to 2300 lumens emitted at max rated current. I'd expect greater losses in just about anything you can come up with to make the LED work within a projector, than if you were using a D2S bulb. If you use multiple though, they could work out quite well, and not cause as much glare to others on the road due to the light being spread out, rather than a ton of light coming from a single point.

There are also Cree emitters on 10mm metal core pcbs which would allow four to fit into the area of one bridgelux array, and provide 3600 lumens of neutral white light. The crees cost a bit more though...I think that you can get three bridgelux for the price of four Crees. The Brudgelux only offers 60 lumens per watt in neutral white, so they don't look very appealing compared to Cree's 85lm/W at max.

Anyway, only testing will tell the story.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #9 –
I ordered a BXRA-40E2200-B-00 to play with. 3500 lumens at 40W and neutral white. 23mm star so it will need some optics magic to get a wide beam.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #10 –
As noted in another thread, I received my Brudgelux LED. I also received my TSX projector. Using a single XM-L behind the reflector, the mean is pretty good, but width will always be questionable. I will need to cut a projector's reflector and see how the Bridgelux does when sitting just inside the reflector. I'm guessing like this, it would work great. The problem is I want to lose some of the depth of projectors, so I will see what I can do with moving the LED forward a little. My dual 50V/5A psu should be here this week to play with.

The TSX does indeed have the shortest focal length, so it has the best chance of using the most nearest LED array.

Cree XM-L Easy White on left, large Bridgelux LED array (24 emitters) on the right:

1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #11 –
Okay, so here is the problem I expected with beam width. It's still much better than stock headlights, but the foreground lighting is excessive with the LED, and the width isn't that that people are impressed with when seeing HID projection. This is where I figured I would use three LEDs with one aiming forward, and two angled either direction. I'm not sure if it'd be better to aim them inward toward the middle of the reflector, or out, into the reflector.






D2R bulb in Valeo housing:


LED in Valeo housing:
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #12 –
Any progress on the lights?

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #13 –
x2,, im curious as well, SEEK, Where are you

Single piece headlight assembly with LED projection

Reply #14 –
Quote from: jcassity;404068
x2,, im curious as well, SEEK, Where are you

Holidays have been busy. The Tbird's work stopped while rebuilding a Subaru during Thanksgiving week and waiting for PCBs to come in for the tail light control/sequencing module. Now that the Tbird has insurance on it again, I need to get the tails and carpc finalized so I can give it some exercise. Oh yeah. and the CarPC has been upgraded, with a motherboard that has a much quicker POST, allowing it to boot (from off or hibernation with 8GB of RAM) in under 15 seconds. It beats the nearly 30 seconds the Core2 based computer was doing, and provides some better processing power for the active audio processing.

That currently has an Asrock ITX mb, i3 3225 CPU, 2x4GB Samsung RAM, currently the old 80GB Intel SSD (want a 256GB Samsung 830), and it loads at close to 50W with nearly 10W idle. The soundcard I am using adds about 50% more power consumption to the entire system...

As for this project, I am going to use some mirrors to force the light out the projector, rather than lose most of it in the reflector housing (which doesn't work since it's focusing light from a HID bulb). The losses with the LED in the reflector are just too great without some special work with mirrors at the very minimum. I may just use some 40W LEDs and mirrors, and just suck up the loss to the sides of the car, which are only lighted with HID projectors, something we got along fine without for the last decade.

Two more days off to relax, and I may use that to get everything done, except the door speaker boxes built. I will order some front-surface (I don't remember the name) mirrors from a US supplier to get them here in the next week or two and use tape to mock things up for testing.
1988 Thunderbird Sport