4 to 5 lug swap

Topic: 4 to 5 lug swap (Read 22664 times) previous topic - next topic

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #30 – January 26, 2012, 02:43:00 AM

says its a sn95 rear end with 3.27 gears that's all i know right now haven't had the funds yet waiting for taxes :D

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #31 – December 18, 2013, 05:15:59 PM

Hi guys, I just joined the board after finding this thread. I have an '86 3.8 Bird as well and have been researching my options. I was wondering if the OP ever completed his swap?

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #32 – February 08, 2014, 07:25:33 AM

Will Mark VII (non ABS) rotors bolt directly to the front of a 1988 T-Bird (3.8L)? If so, what year rotors? Thanks.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #33 – February 08, 2014, 09:39:00 AM

No, they will not fit. You'd have to go to Turbo Coupe or Mustang 5.0 front brakes first. There is a company, and I forgot who they were, that actually sell rotors for your car that are 5 lug. I'll see what I can find.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #34 – February 10, 2014, 06:02:22 PM

Vinnie may be thinking of this place:

http://completebrakeservice.com/

From Eric's CoolCats site:

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #35 – February 28, 2015, 01:45:20 PM

Lets see if I can wake this beast of a thread back up. Ive been idly searching for ideas on my build in my free time. This thread seems to have been the most helpful so far. However, I have an 87 Turbo Coupe. My car needs brakes pretty badly. I was going to stick to 4 lug, but I'd prefer bigger brakes. I am getting a little shake during acceleration and deceleration. I know the rotors need to be replaced b/c it shakes hard while braking. I'm a little concerned that the diff may be a source of the shaking. I say all that to say, I think my best bet would be to purchase the whole rear end. My bird is my daily so I cant have it down for too long, but this does give me a little freedom with expenses as I don't have a car payment. My question for you is, If your TC was still untouched, what direction would you go with it? I am about 2 hours away from MPS Auto Salvage previously posted in this thread. They currently have this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-95-FORD-MUSTANG-COBRA-8-8-REAR-END-AXLE-NEW-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-5-LUG-11-65/140848895410?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28772%26meid%3Df81e4832c2524083b9bebdbc881bb312%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D10%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D120844927855

Will this bolt right up? I need to make sure I have everything in place before I break my car down. The last thing I want is to be in a situation where I have to buy or fabricate a bunch of little stuff in the middle of the swap. Thanks for your help!

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #36 – February 28, 2015, 04:30:13 PM

That'll work but it's way overkill, your rear rotors would be bigger than the front If you go this route. The brake lines have to be tied in to work with the TC and I'm not sure if they bolt right up or if you need adaptors

5-lug is definitely the way to go and you'll want to upgrade the front brakes first, sn95 parts to be specific is what you want for better brakes

If your TC is untouched I would do replace the pads all around, make sure all calipers are working correctly and brakes should be decent, from there I would convert to vacuum assist to get rid of the stock abs unit which will need to be replaced if you plan to upgrade your brakes at all
This consists of mainly a new brake booster, master cylinder, and a proportioning valve. Just these 3 components will make a world of a difference. They really let you get the most out of your stock brake components which are already a big step up from anything non-turbo coupe

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #37 – March 01, 2015, 12:28:29 PM

Snag a complete rear end out of a V8 94-98 Mustang GT as they have 10.5" rear rotors. Your current rear end has 10" rotors so the difference in rear breaking will be negligible if you do this part of the brakes first. The 94-95 rear end is identical to the width of the TC rear from axle to axle so where your current wheels sit under the car will not change. The only issue with just bolting in the 94-98 rear end is that the best your are going to do gear wise if it is a factory unit is 3.27 and the TC's have 3.73's. To solve that problem you could just swap over the axles and brakes from the 94-98 rear end to the one that is already in the car which if you already have the parts off the 94-98 rear end could be done on a Saturday with no issues. This has a couple of draw backs though. The first is that you have to be sure your rear gears, pinion bearing, and carrier bearings are in good shape. The second is less of a problem but you need to check the axle bearings out on the ends to make sure they are in good shape but the axle seals and bearings are easy to replace with a rental tool from any parts store. I like to tear my rear ends all the way down, have them media blasted, and then painted black before I put them back in the car but that it just me and by no means 100% necessary.

As for the ABS as mentioned by Ramos617...gut it and do what he said. I would use a '93 Mustang Cobra booster and master cylinder as this combo will work with your stock brakes, the 94-98 GT brakes, and the Cobra brakes so it gives you a lot of flexibility. The only draw back is that the Cobra MC has metric threads where the brake lines attach and your car has SAE threads. To get around this you have two choices which are swap the fittings which can be done several ways but this is stupid simple or install a '85 Lincoln Towncar MC which is aluminum as it has SAE threads but also has a 1" diameter piston like the '93 Cobra MC.

As for the front of the car. You have a couple of choices to get you to five lug so I will go from cheapest to most expensive.

1) If you have 10" front brakes to begin with you can use mid to late 80's Ranger rotors but I believe you will have to use the races and bearings for your car so they fit the spindles that are on your car. This is easily checked by looking up the part numbers for the races and bearings for your car and the Ranger. The draw back here is that you still have 10" brakes and can expect the same shiznitty braking performance.

2) If you have 11" front brakes like the TC's then you can swap over to the Lincoln Mark VII five lug rotors and you are done. If you have 10" brakes then you will also have to install a set of the TC or 87-93 Mustang 5.0 spindles so that the Mark VII rotors will work. The larger rotor hat of the Mark VII rotor limits some of the wheels you can use but several like the 97-98 Cobra wheels will work. So now you will have 11" front brakes but again I still say you will have shiznitty braking performance. Now that I have said that twice I should explain. You still have single piston calipers with a not so great slider set up and even if you upgrade to the SVO 73mm front calipers its not all that great. One draw back of the SVO calipers is that they can hit on some wheels.

3) SN95 Mustang GT front brake conversion on any 83-88 Bird or Cougar. If you step up to this you will finally have some decent brakes and this should have been what was installed at the factory. The front brakes on the 94-98 Mustang GT and V6 cars are the same (10.9") so either will work. For this conversion I usually just go to a salvage yard and tell them that I want a set of 94-95 Mustang GT or V6 spindles (if you are running the stock K-member) or 96-98 Mustang GT or V6 spindles (if you are running an aftermarket tubular K-member) with the dust shields, hubs, calipers, caliper brackets, rotors, strut bolts & nuts, and ball joint nuts. This usually runs in the $150 to $200 range but I have not bought a setup in a while so its probably changed. You will also need to get a manual proportioning valve (http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M2328C/Mustang-Ford-Racing-Adjustable-Brake-Proportioning-Valve) and gut the proportioning side of the combination valve (see picture at the end of the paragraph) and install a new plug in the combination valve (http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M2450A/Mustang-Brake-Proportioning-Valve-Plug) From here you have a couple of choices which are taking the rotors down and getting them turned if they will turn or just getting new ones which are fairly cheap and deciding on moving up to the '99-04 Mustang GT calipers which are dual piston PBR calipers. I would highly recommend that you upgrade to the dual piston PBR's as they increase the braking performance ten fold over the stock 94-98 GT single piston calipers. This will only require you to remove a small amount of material off the mounting ears of the 94-98 spindles for these to fit (Google this and it will come up all over the Mustang sites and well as on here). The only other thing you will need to come up with is a 0.330" stack of 5/8" hardened washers for each ball joint so that the castle nut for the spindle is in the right spot. These washers go between the spindle and the castle nut as the 94-98 spindle is thinner than the Fox spindle at this location. If you have a car with 10" brakes you can reuse the struts but you will need shims as the distance between the spindle mounting tabs is wider on the 10" brake cars than the 11" brake cars. The struts from cars with 11" brakes (like the TC's) will bolt directly to the 94-98 Mustang spindles with no shims.

This is what you have to remove from the combination valve. You will replace the cap with the one I linked from LMRS or where ever you buy it:

4) SN95 Cobra front brake conversion on any 83-88 Bird or Cougar. Its the same as the Mustang GT brake conversion with the exception of the rotors, calipers, and caliper brackets. These are different due to the increased rotor diameter to 13" but are still utilizing the same spindle and hub. I did this upgrade and the GT/V6 dust shields will work just fine with the larger rotors. If you go this route you need to upgrade the rear brakes to the Cobra specs. If you have already converted the rear to the 94-98 Mustang brakes then you will need to change the dust shield, rotor, and brake caliper axle bracket, and caliper bracket. This will require the removal of the axles to swap out the axle brackets.

My 93 Coupe was originally a 4 cylinder car so I drove it with 10" brakes and 9" drums for a couple of years and with the 4 cylinder they sucked so I can only imagine how bad they would have been with a V8. When I swapped the car over to an injected 5.0 the brakes were "upgraded" to the 11" brakes up front with the SVO calipers and it still sucked. Later down the road I swapped everything over to the brakes from a 1995 Mustang GT and added the '99 GT front calipers. It was like lightning had hit the car as it now braked better than anything I had ever owned before and I was very confident in the car. A few years later I upgraded the car to the Cobra brakes and the braking performance increased but it was not as dramatic as going from the Fox GT brakes to the SN95 GT brakes. So with all of that said anytime someone is wanting to go to 5 lug my opinion is to skip the Ranger and Mark VII options and go straight to the 94-98 brakes with the '99 GT PBR calipers.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #38 – March 01, 2015, 10:10:48 PM

I've read over this a few times. Trying to let it sink in to get some clear direction on what I want to do. I would love to go with the cobra set up, but the parts are probably a lot harder to come by for a decent price. I love the sound of 13" rotors up front. It would be great if I could find a roller. The down side is that I don't have a ton of time to devote to wrenching. Work takes most of that. I've been converting my '84 F-150 to 4bbl since last Feb. I may have a local guy that could do the work for me, while I'm on the road. I just need to get all the parts together and get the whole thing knocked out at once. What I've gathered is that if I want to go Cobra, my brake system would be Cobra parts all the way around. Are the Cobra front calipers dual piston PBR's, and would they require grinding to fit on the spindles? I'm assuming that wouldnt be an issue if I can use the Cobra spindles. What would be the issue with running GT rears with Cobra fronts? When I go with the Cobra set up under the hood, will I be eliminating all forms of ABS?

From what I gather, I need to decide if I'm going all Cobra, or going SN95 with PBR's.

BTW, thank you for your responses. I've been searching the forums for all that info you put in one nice package for me. Also, I believe I'm running a 3.55 gear in my manual TC. Is there a preferred gear for these 2.3 turbos?

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #39 – March 01, 2015, 11:01:33 PM

Since you already have a 87-88 tc, you already have the best 4 lug braking setup the factory had to offer.

I'd kill the abs and throw a regular brake booster and master cylinder on and see how you like it. This will need done if you choose to go 5 lug pretty much no matter what. If you still find it inadequate, your not out anything if you decide to do the sn-95 swap later on. You already have 11" front brakes and 10" rear rotors.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #40 – March 02, 2015, 08:51:49 AM

The Cobra front calipers and the '99+ calipers are the same in that both are dual caliper setups and both were made by PBR. The difference is that the Cobras are used with 13" rotors and the '99+ calipers are used with 10.9" rotors. The will both bolt up to the 99-04 spindles with no modifications. The Cobra calipers will bolt up to the 94-04 spindles with no modifications however the '99+ calipers require the 94-98 spindles to be modified but will bolt directly to the 99-04 spindles with no modifications. This is a picture of a '94 spindle showing the two areas that need material removed to fit the '99+ caliper, takes all of five minutes with a 4" grinder and an 80 grit sanding disc:

You need to have a balanced system so running the 13" rotors up front with the 10" rotors out back will be out of whack balance wise. I drove mine like that for a few months and it prompted me to do the rear a little quicker.

No matter how you look at it the factory brakes on any Fox sucked. They were horribly under designed and lacking any kind of performance stopping power. Swapping over to the 94-98 brakes does not increase the rotor sizes from the Fox setup however it does increase the swept area of the brakes and when combined with the '99+ front calipers it will out brake any Fox system hands down. The other advantage to the SN95 style brakes is that the front hub will fit just about every aftermarket rim out there in five lug where the Mark VII will not.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #41 – March 03, 2015, 08:17:24 PM

I can give a glowing endorsp00get for the '99+ dual piston PBR calipers...they rock.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #42 – March 04, 2015, 12:03:22 PM

93 Cobra brake booster is a must. I have the SN95 setup in front and MarkVII in the rear, and bias is perfect with a TC prop valve. Don't use spacers between the strut and spindle, use the correct strut. This would be the time for suspension upgrades. LX springs need to go. If you don't want to lower your ride, use sport springs front and rear. LX springs will give quite a nosedive during stopping after the brake upgrade. I had difficulty finding 15 inch wheels that would fit. 16x7s are slim pickens. I had to go with 16x8s, which do stick out of the fender a bit. It actually looks pretty awesome, but I have to watch my speed on certain dips in the road.

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #43 – March 04, 2015, 12:16:07 PM

I've got the 95 GT master cylinder with the setup listed above. Stopping power is great, however, the pedal seems a little soft. Any suggestions? Darren? My front calipers are SN95. Will going to the 99 PBRs help the pedal feel or make it worse? And also, will the 99 PBRs change the bias?

4 to 5 lug swap

Reply #44 – March 04, 2015, 01:04:54 PM

TC Springs are pretty close to the Sport springs. I had some 2000 Stang GT springs under my Sport, lowered it a bit, and improved the bounciness.

If your pedal is soft, I think you will want to increase the bore...I'm not sure if the '93 Cobra master will be increase in bore size of the '95 master or not. Both cars had disc rear brakes.

The only different in pedal feel I've noticed on my Mustang after the PBR '99+ front caliper swap is that the brake pedal is a bit more touchy than before, it's roughly the same as far as perceived softness or hardness.
Of course I still have the stock drum setup on the rear so that likely doesn't help much.