4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #30 – September 11, 2011, 11:57:56 AM "But keep in mind, most of the LSx engines start at around 5.3 liters, and most of the performance versions are 5.7, 6.0 and up...all the way to 7.0, or whatnot.Give the devil the benefit of the extra cubes....if the Coyote had the same displacement, it'd be a much more fair comparison. But they don't, so keep right on comparing apples to bananas"Keep in mind also that the LSX platform is now Almost 15 years old while the Coyote is their latest thing. Sure there are slight changes in the motors, Even comparing the LS1/2/6 heads to the new LS3/7 there is a great difference, And my LS3 heads are flowing over 350cfm @ 600, the LS7 were building the heads flow close to 400 cfm, for 2 valves thats incredible You have to also remember the Coyote is fords "performance" motor, its only put in the mustang GT, while the LSX series are in trucks, and suv'sFor what its worth, ive seen stock long blocked 5.3 Truck motors, with Z06 Cams put down more WHP then Mach 1's and 01 cobras.There is no doubt the Coyote is a badass motor, and they make great power and have TONS of potential, but its about time the LSX's have trounced the fords since the beginning. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #31 – September 11, 2011, 12:40:22 PM Eric, This is another thread that needs to be closed. Oh wait.....it's not up to 15 pages yet, never mind. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #32 – September 11, 2011, 12:44:31 PM So... how long is this thread about chevy engines being greater than ford engines going to continue?? Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #33 – September 11, 2011, 01:21:38 PM Quote from: Glocklimited9;367360You have to also remember the Coyote is fords "performance" motor, its only put in the mustang GT, while the LSX series are in trucks, and suv's At the risk of disagreeing with you and therefore causing World War 17, as is always the case when somebody dares disagree with one of you two, I'd like to point out that the Coyote is also available in the F150 , as its base V8 (the other available engines being the 3.7, Ecoboost and 6.2 Hurricane). And given the volume differences between the F150 and the Mustang I'd wager that there are far more F150's on the road with Coyotes than there are Mustangs, even though the Mustang had a head start. Pretty sure I've read recently that the Expedition will also be getting the Coyote treatment starting this year, which will also skew production toward trucks. The LSx is a great engine, as I've said before, but also as I've said before it makes good power despite its two valves, not because of them. Even staying within GM, the 3.6 High Feature V6 currently making its way under the hood of almost everything GM makes (this is not a bad thing) makes more power than the much larger 5.3. There is a reason that the GM LSx and Chrysler Hemi are the only two pushrod engines available by any manufacturer (wait, does Rolls Royce still use the old 6.25 liter?). It is a design whose time has come and gone, just like the old flatties did... Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #34 – September 11, 2011, 01:32:37 PM Carm...it's no use. You can lead a horse to a water hole, but you can't make him drink of it.Just like Renzo posting the pics of the stack of EEC's in the other g match....it doesn't prove shiznit in regards to his '87 having the full 15psi boost in the high gears. And one of those EEC's pictured was a reman unit, to boot! I've just decided it's easier to throw em on ignore, than to carry on arguing with 'em. Hell, if they have the LSx engines that far up their asses, why do they even try to argue about the boost levels in the first place!? When nearly every manufacturer, save the two domestics (that incidentally have taken handouts from the US Gov't) have seen the light and are making cam-in-head, 3 and 4 valve engines...well...it's easy to see why things are. It's a miracle of physics the LSx engines are that powerful, for their size, but it doesn't mean they're the next best thing to sliced bread.I'm not insulting renzo and his whelp's affinity for 'em...but I am sick of this stupid debate, not to say that I haven't done my share of egging it on, but christ almighty, who really gives a shiznit, y'know? Guten Tag. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #35 – September 11, 2011, 01:34:30 PM Quote from: Thunder Chicken;367367At the risk of disagreeing with you and therefore causing World War 17, as is always the case when somebody dares disagree with one of you two, I'd like to point out that the Coyote is also available in the F150 , as its base V8 (the other available engines being the 3.7, Ecoboost and 6.2 Hurricane). And given the volume differences between the F150 and the Mustang I'd wager that there are far more F150's on the road with Coyotes than there are Mustangs, even though the Mustang had a head start. Pretty sure I've read recently that the Expedition will also be getting the Coyote treatment starting this year, which will also skew production toward trucks. The LSx is a great engine, as I've said before, but also as I've said before it makes good power despite its two valves, not because of them. Even staying within GM, the 3.6 High Feature V6 currently making its way under the hood of almost everything GM makes (this is not a bad thing) makes more power than the much larger 5.3. There is a reason that the GM LSx and Chrysler Hemi are the only two pushrod engines available by any manufacturer (wait, does Rolls Royce still use the old 6.25 liter?). It is a design whose time has come and gone, just like the old flatties did... Couldn't agree more Thunder Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #36 – September 11, 2011, 03:01:17 PM Did I mention that I like my 5.0? Just thought I'd ask. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #37 – September 11, 2011, 04:35:01 PM Four-valve heads definitely have greater flow potential than two valve heads. The new DOHC motors are making fantastic power for their displacement. The biggest problem with them is their lack of potential for large displacement (at least right now). They are definitely the future. Windsors and Gen 3/4's can be taken well into the 450ci range which is something that the mod motors aren't even close to. Hopefully Ford will eventually coming out with something in the 400+ CI range that will be absolutely wicked. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #38 – September 11, 2011, 06:00:10 PM They've got something like that. I've read that the Hurricane has the potential to go to 7 liters. Unfortunately with current and future fuel economy issues we'll likely never see it. On the plus side, with advancements in engine controls and fuel delivery we likely won't need it. I mean, why bother with a 7.0 V8 when you could easily make a 5.0 more powerful with a pair of turbos. Just imagine an ecoboost version of the 5.0... (I think I just salivated on my keyboard typing that). It probably wouldn't be marketed as "Ecoboost" (the type of vehicle that would use a 600+ horsepower V8 engine would not exactly meet the "green" image Ford has built with the Ecoboost name), but I can well imagine such an engine under a different name powering a future Shelby GT500, or a future GT-type supercar, or even a new Lightning or H-D F-150. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #39 – September 11, 2011, 06:07:21 PM Quote from: Thunder Chicken;367395Just imagine an ecoboost version of the 5.0... I can well imagine such an engine under a different name powering a future Thunderbird.I saw what you did there.... Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #40 – September 11, 2011, 07:39:09 PM Quote from: Thunder Chicken;367395On the plus side, with advancements in engine controls and fuel delivery we likely won't need it. I mean, why bother with a 7.0 V8 when you could easily make a 5.0 more powerful with a pair of turbos. I agree with you but only for a street car. 302ci is plenty to get a single 76gts or pt88 spooled but for a racecar with a pro mod 94 is a pita to get on boost with that few of cubes. Obviously, it can be work but it has to be spun considerably higher, have a more aggressive tune, sit on the brake longer... to get the job done. There are extremely fast modular cars out there but it's much more expensive than the old technology. I have every intention of putting a Coyote in my street car but I won't do put a modular in the racecar until I can get some cubes to go along with it. I like everything about the Coyote except how small it is. They do sound amazing though lol. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #42 – September 11, 2011, 08:17:14 PM Quote from: TOM Renzohttp://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...uns/001-67.jpgQuote from: BeauJust like Renzo posting the pics of the stack of EEC's in the other g match....it doesn't prove shiznit in regards to his '87 having the full 15psi boost in the high gears. And one of those EEC's pictured was a reman unit, to boot! Quote from: TOM RenzoI chose those particular ECM'S out of a stack i have for the 2.3T ENGINES. Clearly one should have gotten your attention. BUT IT DID NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!What, so you peeled the label off and wrote "LA2" on it with a sharpie to make me think that it was factory, and still makes the full 15psi of boost in high gears? Get over yourself. Time and time again you've proven yourself to be a sore loser, you flare up at any sign of disagreement, even though it has factual merit, and you're always tossing about that you've built this hot rod or that. Get over yourself. Troll. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #43 – September 11, 2011, 08:46:53 PM Ok thunder sport you win. But i would like to see the cars you have or have BUILT IN YOUR LIFETIME. I do have the answer of the LA2 V LA3 but it will go to my grave. You see i spoke to the FORD engineers Friday. Once again look at those ECM'S very closely the answer is staring you in the face. The one that is marked LA2 was because the tag got messed up not to IMPRESS YOU. Either way you are the best car builder in the world and i am beat. With that show me some of your WORK. Now LOOK AT THE ECM'S closely and the answer is their. Either way your hatred for me is well documented. I admit i make Mistakes and i have made many in my life. Now i will move on. One thing before i go You need to work on your SOCIAL SKILLS. Quote Selected
4 Valves better than 2 ???? Reply #44 – September 11, 2011, 08:55:34 PM Like I said in my posts in the other g match: either you're lying, or the car does have an LA3, or it was a late build '87. (Just like some of us predicted from the start..)You don't think that at 12:01AM Jan. 1 1988 they all magically morphed into LA3's....did ya?You did!? For shame... Quote Selected
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