Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion (Read 4836 times) previous topic - next topic

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

hey everyone!

I picked up my 87 Thunderbird this fall ,its a 3.8/ auto car that is far from perfect, but still decent enough to drive, considering it has spent its entire life as a driver in Iowa.  the car is a 3.8/ auto car, the car seems to have an odd hard start issue that has driven me to s the 3.8 idea all together.  So i have been gathering some parts, and plan on digging in this summer.

Here is what I have gathered so far:

351W out of a 95 F150
Rear axle assembly out of a 98 Mustang
Front spindles off the same 98 mustang
All brake parts associated with the same 98 mustang
99 mustang front calipers
98 mustang 15" rims and tires
2008 mustang 16" rims ( i dont know if these will work, but the price was right)

My idea is to make the car a simple, reliable fun driver.  i plan on running the 351 as a carbed engine with the factory AOD for the time being, so i will be open for suggestions on how to ditch the factory 3.8 injection wiring, how to convert to an inline pump, and from what i can tell, most of the mustang engine parts ( pan, headers) will work to get it all in the car.  i plan on swapping to the 5 lug parts that i listed above, the car has new front struts in it, which i will retain with spacers, but i will get a MM bumpsteer kit and MM upper plates.  I know there are larger brake options, but im putting an emphasis on budget.  I have seen several threads about using springs to lower the car,  i dont want to get undriveably low, i would like to just put a proper squat and a firmer ride to it, does anyone have any suggestions there?  Also, with the spindle swap and the consideration of different springs, will i be better off just looking at the offset rack bushings??  finally, while on the discussion of suspension, is there a cheap swaybar upgrade?

As far as the rest of the car goes, the body is in very salvagable shape, i need to replace the rocker panel and possibly look for a door and fender (depends on how deep the rust looks when i get to prep work) but i plan on just giving the car a few coats of flat black paint ( dont worry, body guys, im not going rattle can) and i will probably look at shaving the body trim off as well.  the interior of the car is actually in quite nice shape, I intend to ditch the AC during the engine swap,  and im wondering, even though they are currently still functional, is there an easy way to convert my power windows to crank windows, and my power drivers seat to a manual rail seat?

Like i said, right now im just looking for ideas and discussions on what is the best direction to achieve the build i want.  Im not afraid to spend money on good parts where it is needed, but i am putting a big emphasis on keeping the car simple, and budget oriented. 

your thoughts??

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #1 –
I did a sn-95 t-5 swap behind my 302 for $400 all in. Made it much more driveable and an option if the aod goes.

Good luck finding manual doors. Ive seen two in 15 years, and I owned them both. Manual seat tracks are easier to find, but still a pain.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #2 –
trust me, im all about the third pedal antics, but i wont cross that bridge until the AOD gives up the ghost. 

sucks about the manual window thing.  I was really hoping for someone to say " yeah, a 92 mustang regulator assembly will work just fine! " or something like that.

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #3 –
Yeah, it's one thing that really, really isnt to common on a "personal luxury car". There was a member down in florida that had a 87-88 with hand cranks, and litterly the only proof ive seen of an 87-88 car having them.
Also the 83-86 glass is different from 87-88 glass. So even though the 83-86 cars were more common, I believe power windows to have been standard on all but the stripper models.

Manual seat tracks can be had, but again most cars had at least power drivers side seats.
However, all the other parts you have should work out okay. 94-98 mustang stuff is all the same width or really close to it on our cars. The 94-95 spindle assembly slightly more desirable because it keeps things more in line with the stock stuff, but if you get caster camber plates, you will be able to dial it all in.

As far as suspension stuff goes, 94 up mustang springs seem to work okay on our cars. A few guys here swear by them, but we have a ton more rear over hang and.more weight in back, so it might make stuff sit a bit lower. Che actually makes adjustable lower control arms for our cars, so if it ends up an inch or two too low, you can throw those on.

Overall, these cars are kinda like fox mustangs and sn-95 mustangs put together, with a few unique quirks.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #4 –
yeah,. im not gonna chase down uber rare parts like factory crank windows, when my power windows still operate.  i was just hoping there was a simple swap for simplicity's sake.

you said 94 up mustang springs are ideal, so im guessing if i wanted an inch of drop or so, just look for 5.0 mustang 1" lowering springs then?

I'm wondering what all im goingto have to mod to get the 351 into there....

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #5 –
Window motors are easy to find, and manual windows actually weigh a bit more than power windows.

For simplicity and budget sake, a 5.0 would be cheaper in my opinion as you don't need the more expensive headers and oil pan, and a 5.0 can make great power. Not sure how much power you're wanting. But even with a 5.8, you'd need a new cam and intake, possibly heads as the factory E-7 heads aren't much to talk about.

An Explorer 5.0 already has great heads eithe r way (GT40 or GT40P), a really good intake and an easy to mod for a 5.0 65mm throttle body.

 My car is making about 320 hp at the wheels with the 5.0 I have, I also have a Ford Racing Z-Spec T-5 in mine among other things. Great power for what it is. I mostly use it as a daily driver but can have fun with it as well
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #6 –
The springs Vinnie has in his signature will give you about a 1 to 1-/2" drop with a 302 over the nose.  If you are going to run a 351 then crash the SN95 Mustang boards and see what they are running spring wise to keep a stock height.  Most of them put a 351 in their car with stock V8 springs and it lowers it.  The difference between the 94-95 Mustang spindles and the 96-04 spindles is all geometry.  You want to run the 94-95 spindles with a stock K-member due to how the tie rod end attaches to the spindle versus the 98-04 spindle which translates into bump steer issues.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/tech_front_susp_spindle_warning.aspx

The other thing with the SN95 spindles is that the 94-95 spindles will increase the track width about 1/8" per side where the 96-04 spindles will increase the track width about 5/16" per side.  This is a really good write up on the differences when going from a Fox spindle to a SN95 spindle.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/tech_front_susp_7993to9604_spindle.aspx

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #7 –
For the fuel system I believe there is a regulator out there that will bring the fuel pressure down to 7 psig but I am not sure what HP level it will support with the smaller factory fuel lines.  My suggestion would be if you can retro the fuel pump assembly to a pick up for an external pump like a Holley blue pump.  The Holley blue pump will run a mild 351 with no issues and if you get the regulator pretty close to the carb you will not need a return line.  If that is a bust then get a Competition Engineering sump kit and sum the factory tank.  This will require AN fuel line, fittings, and a regulator (come with the Holley blue pump).

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #8 –
Quote from: vinnietbird;459563
Window motors are easy to find, and manual windows actually weigh a bit more than power windows.

For simplicity and budget sake, a 5.0 would be cheaper in my opinion as you don't need the more expensive headers and oil pan, and a 5.0 can make great power. Not sure how much power you're wanting. But even with a 5.8, you'd need a new cam and intake, possibly heads as the factory E-7 heads aren't much to talk about.

An Explorer 5.0 already has great heads eithe r way (GT40 or GT40P), a really good intake and an easy to mod for a 5.0 65mm throttle body.

 My car is making about 320 hp at the wheels with the 5.0 I have, I also have a Ford Racing Z-Spec T-5 in mine among other things. Great power for what it is. I mostly use it as a daily driver but can have fun with it as well



Vinnie, the 351W choice isnt so much about making more power, its about ease of access.  I currently have 3 spare 351s sitting in the corner,  i dont have a spare 302 around here.  If i did, i would go with a 302, just for ease of finding parts.  i intend to go with a carbed engine, once again,  simple, not having to chase down things like wiring harnesses and computers.

I do have a set of GT40 heads off a 351w ( lightning heads) around here somewhere,  they will certainly wake things up.

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #9 –
Assuming it isn't a Lightning engine, the '95 351 will be roller cammed... Toss a 5.0 HO cam in it with 1.7 rockers, it'll run...

The '87-'88 Turbo Coupes have a front sway bar much larger than the 3.8 cars...

With a iron headed 351 on the 3.8 springs, you'll probably get a inch drop...

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #10 –
If you also have a 351 lightning lower, you could go efi with the proper wiring harness.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #11 –
I'd love to find a 5.8 roller motor in good shape just to have as a "just in case". I love my 5.0 though. I'm sure having three 351 engines could help you if you posted somewhere that you would like to trade one for a 5.0. I bet you would get a lot of offers.
'88 Sport--T-5,MGW shifter,Trick Flow R intake,Ed Curtis cam,Trick Flow heads,Scorpion rockers,75mm Accufab t-body,3G,mini starter,Taurus fan,BBK long tube headers,O/R H-Pipe, Flowamaster Super 44's, deep and deeper Cobra R wheels, Mass Air and 24's,8.8 with 3.73's,140 mph speedo,Mach 1 chin spoiler,SN-95 springs,CHE control arms,aluminum drive shaft and a lot more..

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #12 –
If you have a roller block 351W as TurbodCoupe50 mentioned that is what you want to build.  Just remember, if you put 302 parts in or on a 351 you will make 302 power.  You can find used performance cams all day long on the Mustang websites on the cheap.  Get the Lightning heads looked over and put a good set of valve springs on them for a roller cam like some Isky 8005A's.  Your choice on the injection or carb but if you have carb stuff then go that route and get a good fuel pump.  My Bird has a 351 in it with an 830 cfm Holley and twin Mallory Comp 140's but it is overkill for the nitrous.  I think you could support a healthy 351 off a Holley Blue pump and a really good 750 DP.  Be prepared for it to smash a T-5 if you put any kind of tires on it that get traction.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #13 –
ok, digging up this thread, because, as usual, things change.

ive now got a 302 on the stand, short block is built minus cam, to stockish specs, i have aset of gt40P heads all ready to drop on, and for now, i plan on going carburated.  I'm also in the process of tracking down a T5 setup.  I decided to keep the AC, i forgot how humid iowa summers get.

Im looking at springs, i see many people are saying running SN95 springs, but is there a certain model i need to focus on?  i am lookingfor roughly an inch of drop ( im not gonna be fussy, if its ony .75" or if its 1.5".  just rough numbers) but the main thing i want is a higher spring rate. Ive searched al ot of the threads here on springs, but i havent found the definitive answer.  Anyone care to help me out with a " if you get springs from a __________________________________  with ________ options"  answer??

Boot's Budget Bird Build discussion

Reply #14 –
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;459908

The '87-'88 Turbo Coupes have a front sway bar much larger than the 3.8 cars...


should i be looking for a rear swaybar from a TC as well?  or should i look aftermarket?