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Topic: Pls someone give me a call , if screwed (Read 2260 times) previous topic - next topic

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Got this motor getting ready to drop for my son but cant get oil to appear at the rockers.

very urgent i get in touch with someone quick,,

i really appreciate it!

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #1 –
call me at 304 772 3411

in front of the engine now and verified oil pump is good

galleys are clear

simply put in an ho cam with GT 40 iron heads.

I can provide my spring and rocker specs but the rockers are 1.6 ratio just like stock, springs are by comp and provide about 110 lbs seat presure, roller lifters are oem ford.,,


swapping on my oem pedastal rockers now to see if things change.

i am in the garage, wont be on here to discuss over the forum, i really just need to bat a couple thoughts by someone who can cypher this and give me an idea or two to check.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #2 –
Jay calm down the FORD engine DIZZY turns counter clock wise. Are you spinning it that way??? I would assume you are??? If so it takes quite a while to get the oil through the lifters and up to the rockers. It really takes time. Now how are you testing this and post a photo. Hope this helps!!
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #3 –
Have patience it takes forever sometimes. Just had the same problem with my sbc in my Camaro. Cranked it over til I killed the starter. Then fired it up and oiled up instantly after I changed the starter. Even if it don't look like it is oiling, if you put assembly lube on the lifters, it might be blocking pushrod passages slightly, takes a bit of oil pressure sometimes before things start lookin right. At least that is my minimal experience, I've only done this a couple times.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #4 –
yes of course im going ccw, i prob have a grand total of maybe an hour on a 900rpm drill.

at first we started the car and i was off a toth on the dizzy, car seemed to need me to help it idle.

started it again and same results except the clatter was still there.

I have prob 45 seconds of run time across two starts.

im up to my second time repulling the motor to change the oil pump and think of any possibility.

i litterally just now sat on the drill for 6 minutes,, nothing up top.

we swapped in know good parts that were just now in a running 302 last monday (my son's bird)
now with oem rockers , new oil pump again,, same results.

i think the machine shop worked on my valve seats a little bit much and changed my push rod geometry,,
im taking a break from it for now.

tomorrow i am gonna take off those purdy GT heads and put E6's on,, i swear to god i finally get oil up top im gonna be pissed.
lots of money and time in this and to boot, machine shope was 6 days late on the due date of thier part.

oh well..  my problem i guess;.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #5 –
Jay if you have the intake off pull one of the lifters out at the rear of the engine on both sides. Spin the pump and look in the bore. You should see a big stream of oil pumping through the passage. If not then pull the lifters from the front of the block and spin and check for oil pumping in the lifter bore.  If not pull the engine and find out WHY.  Also are the lifters NEW?? If not remove one and take it apart or use a brand new one in one side of the lifter bore and spin the pump. Then put it in the other side and spin the pump. You should see oil coming out of the center of the push rod hole. If not you have a problem and the engine needs to be ripped down and checked why. If you cant get oil to the rockers the valve guides and rockers will be destroyed. I always run a pressure and flow test on every engine i build on the stand. If something is wrong i correct it at that point. Good luck

Note you may have to notch the sides of the lifters where they contact the bores.

As a chevy engine builder i used to use SIDE ORIFICE lifters. These lifters oiled only when the oil hole in the side of the lifter fell in to the bore of the block. Once the lifter lifted out of the bore in the block no oil would flow. This was a solid lifter in design and normally does not apply to hydrulics. The lifter body has a grove in it 360* around the body. If the lifter is lifted out of the bore and higher than the relief it wont get oil. But for 16 of them doing it is not a good thing. If you have an old lifter GUT it and put it in the lifter bore with the lifter on the BASE of the cam at the low lift point of the cam. Spin the engine with a drill. You should see oil in the lifter and it should pump threw the body of the lifter. If it does not pull the lifter and spin the pump and look at the lifter channel. It should be pumping gobs of oil to the lifter bore. If it does not the block can be cracked or blocked. This should have been checked by the machinist that did the work on the block. Good luck and go easy and check out what i posted.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #6 –
Before you go pulling heads check the oil pump to pan clearance. Too much or too little will cause issues with oiling. Is the pump pickup on correctly? Is the oil pump drive shaft all the way in the oil pump? Too much lifter preload wouldn't usually cause the rockers to not get oil. You should check the lifter preload on every cylinder. If it's not in spec there are shim kits available for the pedestal mount rockers.

The heads shouldn't be causing your problem. The issue has to be in the oiling system somewhere.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #7 –
Are the lifters new? If they are did you soak them in oil before installation?
If theyre used im almost willing to place a bet on them being gummed up that or your pushrods are gummed up also.

Or as Lou pointed out, might be the pickup tube being to close/far away from the bottom of the pan

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #8 –
If you pull the intake as Tom says, check the oil galley plug at the back of the valley, make sure it's in place.  A friend of mine with a 333 had that problem and he was absolutely balls deep in that engine looking for everything else. he swapped oil pumps, lifters, pump shafts, the works.  When he found that galley plug blown out, he just about shiznit a gold bar.  His symptoms were the same as yours.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #9 –
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;420276
If you pull the intake as Tom says, check the oil galley plug at the back of the valley, make sure it's in place.  A friend of mine with a 333 had that problem and he was absolutely balls deep in that engine looking for everything else. he swapped oil pumps, lifters, pump shafts, the works.  When he found that galley plug blown out, he just about shiznit a gold bar.  His symptoms were the same as yours.


the galley plugs are in both front and back... checked that before we assembled. 
I was wanting to take the plugs out and double check,, besides, i would have been leaking oil out the galley if it were missing.

im reluctant to mate the trans and motor and restart until this is solved.

my son arrived on the 12th, we had heads available to us on 15th, and the block on the 16th.
that gave us two days to get this mock up and mod assembled and working,, to which it is not.  it got an extra day off from work but now has to take my 20th home to have transportation.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #10 –
Take a roundup sprayer with a fitting attached to the hose and put it where the oilpressure sensor would go and pump the snot out of it, full of oil of course. Might have a blockage enroute. Give it a shot.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #11 –
My point was that he had just put the engine together.  He also replaced the rear valley oil galley plug, then it blew out on him.  He lost pressure while
driving a day after installation.  He didn't even find it until he had had the motor out, apart, replaced the oil pump and lifters, back in, run, and then back out and apart again.  You'll have to pull the intake to know for sure.  You could have blown it out during one of your starts.  If you do find it out, replace it and then use penetrating loc-tite around it.  I believe it's green.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #12 –
Did you do a remote oil filter relocation? If so make sure the hoses are correct in and out. Just bringing this up because it is a mistake I made many years ago. Good luck.

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #13 –
OK if this engine has been run without oil pressure because of a pickup issue or whatever it is TOAST. That is if it was void of all oil pressure. I do not think Jay would do this as the first thing one does id PRE LUBE with a drill and a gauge connected to a fresh engine. I do this on the stand before putting the engine in service. This is normal practice as one must adjust the Pump pressure on the stand in case it needs touching up. As far as the lifters being bottomed out or to much pre load is not the issue as the check valve weather Disc or a ball is not effected by PRE LOAD. As the matter of fact you can install a collapsed lifter in an engine and it will eventually pump up. This is evident when some engines make valve train NOISE when left un started for long periods of time. You here the distinct valve noise then it disappears. I have to wonder what is going on with this engine and what parts are NEW and used. I also have to wonder if the machinist cleaned out everything after machining. The lifter galley is right off the pump and i find it fascinating that the oil passage would be blocked on both sides. Something is wrong and a visual inspection of the lifter gallies must be dun with a lifter removed. THis will conform that there is no oil in the lifter bores. If this is the issue that block needs to be torn down and gone over again and all components closely inspected. Did they change the CAM BEARINGS!!! Some emgines need the bearings lined up in the block to allow oil to the lifter gallies. I am almost certain the 5.0 does not do it this way but you never know. Also pulling the heads has nothing to do with oil supply to the lifter gallies.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!
 

Pls someone give me a call , if screwed

Reply #14 –
There are so many possibilities of what it could be...First did you remember to put oil in the motor? Oil pumps won't pick anything up if its not there, been there done that! I know that sounds stupid, but I just spent 2 hours trying to pull out a cam without taking the fuel pump off (not used to working on non fuel injected cars:)), when things start to unravel for me, sometimes I gotta call it quits for the day and come back with a fresh mind. I don't know how many things I wrecked or ruined because I was too stubborn to recognize that I wasn't in the right frame of mind to keep going from either frustration or tiredness, give it a day think things over, it'll probably come to you in the middle of the night.... good luck