Dash structural design/bracing

Topic: Dash structural design/bracing (Read 2958 times) previous topic - next topic

Dash structural design/bracing

July 23, 2011, 10:26:42 PM

So I'm now looking at the interior of my car and thinking up ideas to redo everything. I am curious, how much of the dash top is integral into the strength of the dash and its braces? I see my options as:

1) If possible, separate outer shell from dash for reattachment to frame with bolts or plastic clips. Work on dash fabrication/modification outside of car. This makes wiring, heatercore work, vibration dampening, etc work simple.

2) If the outer shell is needed in places, cutting the dash out but leaving the spots where it attaches to braces. Work on dash fabrication/modification outside of car. This makes wiring, heatercore work, vibration dampening, etc work simple.

3) Refinish dash in-car or create fiberglass overlay for fabrication/modification outside of car.

There are certain "fabrics" that I would like to use to basically wrap the dash with, stitching together the necessary areas, but the better/more durable/expensive ones I'm afraid of messing up if I cannot do the work outside the car. Ideas? I'd REALLY prefer to have the ability to completely remove the outer shell from the dash as one way or another, I will be needing to reinstall and rewire everything in there, and create a wiring diagram, due to the mess it has become over the years. As I add more features to the car, it gets even more difficult without being able to easily access a few empty cavity areas in the dash. I also have an intermittent rattle that has been driving me insane once in awhile...

Our dashes suck.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #1 – July 23, 2011, 10:29:58 PM

As an added note, I was thinking something like this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3122466

Buuuuut, I would be using some type of vinyl-like material. This would also be used for all plastic trim around the car while also being reinforced and sound-barrier installed for improved acoustics. These cars need something less plastic-y on the insides - the interiors have always been a letdown.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #2 – July 24, 2011, 02:08:46 AM

Why not get one of the prefabbed dash-cap tops and set it up in there, get all the necessary tpuppies and prefitment and what not, then attach your material to that before you glue it on?

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #3 – July 24, 2011, 03:57:20 AM

Quote from: sarjxxx;363912

Why not get one of the prefabbed dash-cap tops and set it up in there, get all the necessary tpuppies and prefitment and what not, then attach your material to that before you glue it on?

Those only cover the top part of the dash...and I have one and its texture is why I havne't installed it in the many years I've had it. I was looking at the dash earlier tonight and unsure how well it'd work. It seems most of it IS just the cover, glued to a frame. I'll have to keep poking around to see if it's possible to remove. If not, I'll have to find something to work for the dash. At least the rest of the interior's easy, including wrapping it all in upholstery.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #4 – July 24, 2011, 06:53:49 AM

The outer shell is screwed to a metal frame. I swapped the metal frames between the '88 dash and the '86 I installed into the Sport due to someone cutting part of the frame in half at one time (in the '86). Just took a minute to do. Personally, I'd think that all the work you'll be investing into this project will take 4 times longer than just pulling the dash back for heater core works or whatever (and that is very seldom after a new core is installed). I've never seen an instance where wiring can't be added with the dash in place, and if you follow a few simple steps, you can swap a heater core in an hour or so. Even if you were able to pull the cover off, you still have the metal frame and structure in the way. In the end, you gotta do it your way.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #5 – July 24, 2011, 09:44:28 AM

I think I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here... You said you want to cover the dash in fabric but then you're saying you don't want to use the dash cap b/c is got the wrong texture?

And I know it doesn't cover all the way down the front too but I don't think a seam in your material would be out of place there.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I get that you wanna do it how you wanna do it but to me that seems like by far the easiest and least destructive way to go about it. Maybe I'm missing something:dunno:

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #6 – July 24, 2011, 12:40:16 PM

It'd be nice if I could remove the shell and reattach it with new hidden bolts. I'm not worried about the frame in the way from things - I assume it's just meter bars that I see in places when looking under the dash? The annoying part appears to be all the things that look like they're attached to the shell somehow. I've already done heatercore so I SHOULD be good for another 20 years, but who knows. I'm not against creating an access door for the heatercore and evaporator.

The dash cap - I didn't use as is due to texture. I do want the entire interior to be upholstered (mainly learning from my girlfriend, or trying to get her to do it for me :p ) in a better material than the vinyl on goo type thing the factory used. I would prefer to be able to reupholster parts easily again down the road - the car won't be leaving my possession. I would still need to cover the lower parts of the dash. Ideally, if I can find how to swap just the shell, this gives me the opportunity to recover my current dash and perhaps get a spare for full fabrication work down the road. Hell, I may even be able to redo the ducting and run the vents to new spots and use other parts, moving the carpc screen up to the top bezel.

So vinny - what took a few minutes to do? I assume you mean minutes when the dash was outside of the car? From what I see, a few small screws on the front under lips hold the shell on. I assume these also exist on the rear of the dash, impossible to get to without at least pulling the dash out a few inches?

I never said this would be easy, but it is ideal imo.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #7 – July 24, 2011, 09:02:46 PM

There are a few screws holding the outer shell to the frame. Not that many really.Just strategically placed. Once the dash was out, it only took a few minutes to swap the frames. If you take the dash all out, frame included, it seems like making a quick way to remove the shell would be fairly easy.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #8 – January 03, 2012, 12:55:43 AM

Okay, I am trying to find a dash from anyone local so I can start working on creating different dash panels that I can hide bolts in certain locations. My car is now permanently garaged and has lost daily driver duty. I am looking at getting a dash to use as a template so I can break the dash up and smaller than an single-piece unit which would be a pain to wrap in vinyl.

This is becoming a full customized dash project with a fiberglass base, some frame changes, covered with a layer of foam and wrapped in vinyl, like MANY cars are today. Center rack is going to be tilted a little, center console switches will be moved to a more standard location, and I may ditch the system sentry altogether, using a custom circuit to keep the couple useful lights, ditching the others. The tilted center rack will make the carpc a little more useful but I have to play with glare scenarios and see exactly what I should do there.

Overall, I'm looking at making the dash three vinyl-wrapped fiberglass sections with a lot of other changes, possibly including duct/vent modifications, but that's lower priority over getting something that can take a simple vinyl wrap/stitch like the rest of the interior can. I also want to ditch the flimsy, squeaky interior panel design and instead tack weld so nuts into key places to hold the panels on around interior. I think I'd rather have a snap-together interior than what we got stock in these cars.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #9 – January 03, 2012, 01:12:08 AM

I think you would be much better off building your own dash. Look how much space and weight is just wasted. It is something I have considered doing many times in the past.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #10 – January 03, 2012, 02:11:27 AM

Quote from: Haystack;376876

I think you would be much better off building your own dash. Look how much space and weight is just wasted. It is something I have considered doing many times in the past.

Frame and all? Other than the hvac (which can be done many different ways), I don't see how it'd be HARD, but I do know I can make use of much of the remaining space in the dash. Hell, I'm already making use of most of that space - the reason for the initial desire to be able to remove the skin. Audio components, transmission computer, alarm parts, carpc equipment, additional I/O, other gauges, etc...I can barely close the glovebox currently.

The dash does weigh a bit but I don't see much negative about its frame, other than I would look at welding some additional beams on for more mounting surfaces for all the I have stuffed in there. I could also regret this later on, but my first wish really is to just get the skin off so I can do internal design from there.

I still think our interiors are one of the worst ever designed. My daily driver is now a 2000 Honda Insight and I was VERY surprised how simple, yet pretty feature-rich, the interior, and the car in general is. Even its glovebox quality and design puts ours to shame. Stereo was as simple as removing four screws to make it accessible, and speakers, both front and rear, were a well designed speaker grill that once popped off with a screwdriver, access was right there. Also aiming the headlights took seconds with a philips head screwdriver. I don't mind the 60 city/75 highway I'm currently getting at actual road limits either. Plus their observed reliability, other than the 120-cell NiMH battery packs after 100-150k miles (has fresh pack already) and 2nd gear syncros, makes it cheap to maintain as a daily driver. I just wish the tbird didn't have SO many rattles in the dash right now - its noises detract from the enjoyment I get from driving the thing. Just another reason to make it simpler to get into the dash and improve panel quality to get rid of all noises but the stereo/engine.

Dash structural design/bracing

Reply #11 – January 03, 2012, 02:40:34 AM

Get a single, long roll bar tubing and run it from just in front of the door, at the level of your steering colum. If your shorter, lean it twoards you some, and taller, about 2 inches away. Then make a bracket to attatch to the wind sheild, then get som sheet metal or aluminum and stretch over the bar and upper bracket. You can mount your actual guages, anywhere you want. Hide the carputer, or leave it wide open for accesibility. Dash vents all you would need is defrost and either floor or vents. I doubt you really need ac being that far north, but that is a personal thing. But like that you could litterly take youur entire dash cover off in seconds. Not sure what kind of look your going for there though, or what you want it to look like.

That's what I would do anyways. Might be even easier to build the cover out of wood.