Re: Car Accident Recovery

Topic: Re: Car Accident Recovery (Read 1961 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Car Accident Recovery

January 03, 2010, 02:01:30 PM

Anyone had any experience with recovering from insurance where they had upgraded their vehicle prior to damage?

Got rear_ended in November. Other parties insurance totaled my vehicle.
We don't agree on fair market value. I recently redid engine and transmission. They want to give me something quite a bit less but don't provide a breakout of calculation only that they took several factors in consideration to arrive at their figure.

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #1 – January 03, 2010, 07:29:30 PM

Just make it plain to them that they have to find you the exact same car, same options, same condition, mileage, etc. Remember, you don't have to accept their price.

I washiznit by somebody who ran through a red light. It totaled the geo metro I was in. Done laughing? Anyway, I paid $1200 for it with a bad head (this was when gas was over $4 a gallon, and metros were selling for like 5k!). I ordered a remanufactured head, gasket and bolt set and slapped it on. I installed new control arms, shocks, brakes, tires (hard to find 12" tires!), cd player and speakers. I had that thing perfect.

Then the accident. Her insurance offered me $800. I told them the above story and they said "those are just maintenance parts", but they would consider it if I faxed them the reciepts. So I faxed $700 worth of reciepts. The came back at $950...

I told them to show me their findings. Where could I get a 94 4-door automatic with air conditioning, in perfect shape? "Huh, looks like we only have 2-door stick shifts listed here". 2-door sticks are a dime a dozen.

Miraculously, they called back and offered $2200, which I thought was fair (since gas came back down and metros were again worthless).

Hold your ground and demand an explanation to their findings. If they can't find the same car and make it available, you are not "being made whole again".

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #2 – January 03, 2010, 09:15:20 PM

when i totaled the sport after hitting bambi. the insurance offered me 1500 for it i told the to look under the nada classic value and the low book in it was 3500 they looked online found a car close to mine in milage. anywho i got 3250 out of them thats with buying the sport back. do ur own research show it to them they will atleast meet u either in the middle or better .

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #3 – January 03, 2010, 09:29:25 PM

Thanks for input, especially reference to nada classic value. Didn't know such a thing existed.

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #4 – January 03, 2010, 10:41:36 PM

Heh, I would be so screwed, my car's paint is toast, and with 190k on it, even with a new engine they still probably wouldn't give me 3K. How would that work? I have about 2500 in it mechanically and the previous owner had another 2K cosmetic. About my only option would be to buy it back and transfer ALOT of stuff.

:End Hijack:

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #5 – January 04, 2010, 10:31:32 PM

I would think if you have your reciepts that would be a big help for you.

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #6 – January 05, 2010, 01:07:59 AM

Guess it's a good thing the previous owner kept EVERYTHING, and I continue to do the same.

Hopefully the day never comes....

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #7 – January 05, 2010, 09:14:44 PM

Been there, done that too.

OP's insurance wanted to give me $700 and I would have to mail them my keys. For a bent fender, broken marker light, and broken mirror, they were trying to steal my car. I bucked up, and then, asked what they based their number on. Based on '88 model, not '86 model. Then, they had to go back and do some diggin, and found it under NADA Classic, at $4800 because of low mileage and all factory hardware. I already knew this because my agent told me the car's value was going back up and I should possibly consider putting collision insurance back on it. I wound up getting about $1800 out of 'em plus kept my car. This took some time, and a few threats to report them to BBB, Insurance Board, etc, etc.

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #8 – January 06, 2010, 12:12:32 PM

I don't know if we have any lawyers on the site, but if we do, I'm curious about a few things.

First some definitions:

Fair Market Value (also know as Actual Cash Value) -- is defined as what a willing buyer and willing seller would agree to pay for something.

Book Value -- is effectively the cost of the item less depreciation.

The insurance industry appears to use fair market value to determine a claim.
If a new vehicle was purchased and driven off the lot and immediately wrecked, there would be a difference between the book value (cost less zero depreciation) and the fair market value prior to collision, since many people may have paid more or less for the "same" vehicle.

The concept also holds true for an older vehicle which has been restored (recapitalized). If the vehicle has been fully depreciated and then restored, and immediately wrecked after restoration, the book value would be the cost to restore. However the fair market value would be determined by NADA Classic Cars or some other method. Whether NADA is independent (may be owned the insurance industry for all I know) is unknown. But for argument sake say NADA price represents fair market value for that age vehicle without restoration having taken place.

Question1:
Why would any seller be willing to sell their vehicle (whether new or restored) at less than the cost (book value) that they have in it, unless they know something negative about the vehicle the buyer does not know?

So if you need a willing selling (in either case above) how can the insurance industry force you to accept a fair market value calculation since NADA, or most other calculation, do not take into account actual restoration costs?

Question 2:
If the cost to repair is less than the Fair Market Value, why would the insurance industry want to total a vehicle and pay you the Fair Market Value if they could fix it for less cost?

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #9 – January 07, 2010, 08:59:19 PM

N.A.D.A stands for National Automobile Dealers Association. Weather or not insurance has anything to do with there valuing of cars is yet to be seen ,but when dealing with them the the best thing is to do as much research as you can on your car and its values. Get your own estimates on the damage.then buy if u have to the nada classic or kbb classic depending on the age of ur car.Find out the price of parts new,used ect.. Then ask them to show you their findings if possible to it in person so u can see what they got. Then compare what they have with what you researched and work out an agreement right there that is fair. We all know on this site our cars wont bring in 5,6,or 7 figure numbers (even though they should

) they do hold some value and if i remember right since its been a year they were listed high book of just under 6k and low book of around $3,500 . Now that i think about it its been exactly a year to the day that i've owned my TC :burnout:.Ok back on track even with documents showing parts labor ect.. if all the mods and body/paint work exceed the top value you'll take a loss .Sometimes a big one but thats the risk we all take putting money into any car,hobby,house. I have learned to deal with insurance companies by watching my dad deal with em because of all 3 of my older sisters who always seamed to total a car once or twice a year

. Needless to say my dad put me into a defencive driving school when i turned 16 . So when i hit the deer back in December of 2008 by the time state farm called me with an offer i was prepared and took the starting offer of 1,500;1,100 with buy back to getting 3,250 with buy back .I only gave 700 for the sport when i bought it . I made out on that deal but i have also lost out big too .

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #10 – January 08, 2010, 11:18:16 AM

The insurance company that I dealt with (geico) on my claim told me that they don't care about book value, they only care about their "system" (it had some acronym, but I can't remember). I told them, if that's the case, then I don't care about their "system". I will only talk in real life figures. Find me the same exact car and pay me that price.

Remember, they can't close the case until you AGREE. Don't settle too early, but don't get greedy either.

Re: Car Accident Recovery

Reply #11 – January 17, 2010, 09:06:46 AM

Thanks for input guys, but the questions I posed hit at the rational for using FMV versus Book Value and any case law that may address this issue. While ultimately it is a "negotiated settlement", however, the rational for the base (FMV or Book) on which you start your negotiations is critical. If the industry only will use FMV then that gap ($ diff) may be huge.

My problem is I can make an argument either way.