Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

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Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

April 05, 2008, 12:21:37 PM

Every hear of ZDDP. I didn’t until I had my engine rebuilt.

>>So what is ZDDP and why is ZDDP important?

ZDDP is an additive that helps lubricate your engine especially flat tappet cam engines.
My 1984 3.8L is a flat tappet cam engine.

Because of environmental requirements (at least the oil industry is blaming the environmentalist) the amount of ZDDP in your oil has been gradually declining. When my 1984 was new, SF rated oil had 1500 ppm of ZDDP. The current standard for SM oil is a maximum of 800 ppm.

Rebuilders and CAM manufacturers are especially concerned about the ZDDP reduction as they
are supposedly seeing more CAM failures and are blaming this on less ZDDP. Whether this blame is justified is unknown. Here’s a couple of article for reference:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/oil_summary.html

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf

>>Is API rated oil backward compatible?

I always thought that API rated oils, such as SM, had to meet or exceed the previous oil specifications, such that SM would be better than SL, and SL would be better than SK or SJ.

Well this isn’t exactly true. After contacting API, I learned a few things.

1) One of the objectives of API's voluntary Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) is to help consumers identify lubricants that meet the needs of their vehicles. This is accomplished through the use of category designations within the API Service Symbol.

2) The oil licensee does not need to prove that the oil meets or exceeds the required performance standards, only that the engine oil performance, as measured by an engine test conducted in accordance with the ACC Code, is not below the allowed performance band set at a 95-percent confidence level (one-tailed test).

That’s nice, but in further discussions with API, and after reviewing their performance testing requirements, I could never get a straight answer as to what engines are selected for testing. For example if they are only testing latest production engines, which are roller cams, than SM oil may work for all roller cam engines but not for flat tappet cams. Consequently, test results for SM oil would be significantly skewed and not apply to other than roller cam engines.

>>Does commercial grade oil (such as CF or CI) contain more ZDDP?

Well the commercial (e.g. trucking) is dealing with the same issues. ZDDP is being reduced in all commercial grade oils. I checked with Shell (Rotella) and depending on the viscosity, the oil contains various levels of ZDDP. As of this writing CJ 10W40 contains 1200ppm and CJ 20w50 contains less.

>>So how do you tell how much ZDDP does your oil contain?

You can’t. The only way to determine the amount of ZDDP is to contact the oil manufacturer.

>>Well I’ll use Race Grade oil?

Not a bad idea, but race oils are not rated for street use and may impact your catalytic converter. In addition certain race oils, such as Joe Gibbs (appears Mr. Gibbs saw this problem coming and decided to capitalize on it) is supposedly formulated for flat tappet cams with enough ZDDP. However it cost between $6.00 and $9.00 a quart!!

>> Where do we go from here?

I'm not sure. Since the oil manufacturer (e.g. Shell, Exxon, Valvoline) must meet environment standards, and can modify their oil formula anytime they want, the only things you can do are:

1) Before buying oil, contact the manufacturer and see how much ZDDP it contains.
2) Put some type of additive in, and hope you still pass emission requirements.

Good Luck Folks

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #1 – April 05, 2008, 02:23:42 PM

i just buy RP for everything and forget about it

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #2 – April 07, 2008, 11:26:07 AM

My understanding is rotella is one of the few oils left with a sufficient ammount left to protect a flat tappet cam.

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #3 – April 07, 2008, 01:00:17 PM

As posted, no way to know unless you contact the manufacturer regarding the amount of ZDDP. They can change formulation anytime they want.

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #4 – April 08, 2008, 02:55:31 PM

This is olllld news. And it's also why I bought a container of zinc additive (sold by comp cams I believe) when I built my engine...course I ended up using a roller cam anyway.

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #5 – April 08, 2008, 04:24:15 PM

eastwood has a zddp additive or go to your GM dealer and
ask for a bottle of EOS-part# 88862586.--irv

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #6 – April 08, 2008, 05:24:01 PM

Red_LX:

Maybe old to some, but new to me -- maybe others.

Post was designed as info for those who aren't in the know!!

irv:

GM no longer sells EOS. Only way to get is if someone you know stockpiled.

The ramification of this are bigger than just ZDDP.

If you're relying on API standards for selecting oil to be used in "whatever" vehicle you drive, either now or in the future, a big question exists, at least in my mind (maybe I need a mind adjustment) as to when that standard becomes obsolete. For example if your car at date of manufacturer is rated for SM oil, and 10 years from now the standard is SP, has the standard been changed in such a manner that SP will no longer protect engine wear even though API says SP is backward compatible. In other words what does meeting ANSI requirements mean anymore?

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #7 – April 08, 2008, 05:53:54 PM

its back out .just talked to my GM parts guy and that is
the new #. the bad part about eos was that it wasnt good
on converters if you had an oil burner. it came out in the
50's because some of the gm v8's were having early cam
failures.it also made good cam install lube.back in the 60s
and later some of the cam manufacturers either recommended
it or sent some with the new cam and lifters.--irv

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #8 – April 09, 2008, 12:19:54 AM

Quote from: ajsbird;212946

My understanding is rotella is one of the few oils left with a sufficient ammount left to protect a flat tappet cam.

you know,, i was just thinking about this very thing yesterday as i bought oil and filters for everything in the driveway.

Sure enough,, Quaker State high mileage 10w40 makes the 20th tap a little at idle. now if it were the old oil, rotella, that would not have happened. Im gonna c00ch up a bunch of rotella while it still has zddp for my next oil change,,,, prob next month.

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #9 – April 19, 2008, 05:59:45 AM

If you can find "Street Legal Oil Booster" in the pink bottle and add 2 ounces at a oil change it increases the amount of boron and zinc quite a bit. Its kinda hard to find though.

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #10 – April 19, 2008, 08:11:51 PM

Quote from: irv;213133

its back out .just talked to my GM parts guy and that is
the new #. the bad part about eos was that it wasnt good
on converters if you had an oil burner. it came out in the
50's because some of the gm v8's were having early cam
failures.it also made good cam install lube.back in the 60s
and later some of the cam manufacturers either recommended
it or sent some with the new cam and lifters.--irv

i bought a bottle about a week ago at 21.00 with tax good thick stuff

Oil – Another Thing to Worry About!!

Reply #11 – April 19, 2008, 08:59:22 PM

Quote from: jcassity;213244

you know,, i was just thinking about this very thing yesterday as i bought oil and filters for everything in the driveway.

Sure enough,, Quaker State high mileage 10w40 makes the 20th tap a little at idle. now if it were the old oil, rotella, that would not have happened. Im gonna c00ch up a bunch of rotella while it still has zddp for my next oil change,,,, prob next month.

Why would a roller engine care how much zddp was in the oil? The only concern with the zink and phosphate is in flat-tappet cams IIRC.