so ever since i rewired my cars speakers up i have a much beter sound now that i can controll the dash and door speakers beter and just using the rear speakers off the amp i have.
well anyway without the box and onther amp in the car and using the back speakers as mids and highs the doors as most of my bass sourse and the dash and mids and highs. i can shake the rearveiw mirror and get a nice HIT/punch out of them door speakers. only 6.5's now how many would it take to make it hit really hard in an enclosure in the hatch .
only bc. my box is huge and takes up alot of room. and im not getting the puch i want out of it . i can get the bass to sound like a hit but im not feeling it and also the bass will carry. but only if i listen to newer stuff like if i put led zepplin in i barely notice the box.
anyi deas maybe some 8's or 4 6.5's boxed up and amped to drive the bass. ideas throw them at me.
I would do a search and see if it is possible to fit an 8" in the door. Then you could go with a midbass system. Also you need to check out the 1967 hear I come thread by dookie I think. It has an exelent example of fiberglassing in a small area.
nah i dont think an 8 would fit in the door with the window and all being able to come down.besides i like my bass sound from behind. didnt someone on the old fourm do this to their car. a bunch of small speakers.
Here's what I did with mine. I don't have any box. The sub is "free-air." It's a 10" sub with 7.5"x10" three ways on either side of it. Along with 6" and seperate tweeters in the doors and dash accordingly. Its a great all around system as I only cared about quality. The bass is great.
8's will fit in the door only with a custom enclosure, The package tray idea is your best bet. If your not interested in that, you could try tubes, i had 2 6.5" tubes pushed by 100 wattshiznitting 145dB. Not over loud but good enough. Just remeber the larger the sub you go with the more responce you loose, Rock wouldnt go over a 10 hip-hop wouldnt go under a 10. My suggestion for a bird.cat would be 6.5 3 ways in the doors, tit tweets on the pillars facing windsheild 2 6x9 in package tray also 3 way and two sealed enclose 10's in the trunk (.9 CF air space each.) with the appropriate power pushing them all.
you could build out the hole for the speakers and stick an 8 in there. im building mine out to stick some 3 or 4 way 6x9s.
kicker makes a 6x9 sise woofer. i dont think its a full blown sub but it does put out decent bass. i was going to buids out the blank space under and behind the arm rest in the door for those.
also, a 8 or 10" solo baric sound awesome with the right amp and takes up little space. thats basically gonna be my setup....
but you guys are forgetting. i dont have my cougar anymore. i got the mustang. hatch back im just looking for some ideas.maybe i'll think about this more. or design a new box for the car
vehile doesnt matter, if your looking to save space, 1st i would go with 2 10's in a sealed enclosure, 2nd i would use tubes. Sealed is going to give e nice tight responce but wont produce as low as tubes or a ported box. We really need to know what you are tring to do with it. Is it going to be for comp or peronal sound. I'llbe glad to help any way i can, I was a stereo installer for years and designed a few boxes my self. Let us know your plans and see what we can comeup with.
im looking for the hit but not getting it . i want this thing to hit so hard i want people to be scared when i put it up. i want to feel the bass Drive it's self threw the seats and into my chest. and im not getting that with the box i have now with 2 pioneer 10's dvc's. i put them in a smaller box and i get a beter hit but seems like not enough sound to back it up. like i get with the bigger box. so i want my cake and be able to eat it as well .
Pioneers arn't the best sub in the world for that. I would try to find a set of Xtant X series subs. The round ones no the octagons. I had one in my bird and you could hear me coming before you saw me.
The problem you have is the subs are setup for constant bass, not one hit after another. The pioneers have a foam surround that is in a u shape. Where the xtant has a thick rubber surround that is flat. This is the style you are looking for.
(http://www.carreview.com/Channels/CarReview/images/products/product_49650.jpg)
The x's are very durable and love the hard hitting bass. You will probly not find these at your local bestbuy or super store you will have to ask around at the car audio place because they are very picky as to who sells them.
Did you ever think about mounting them bove the arm rest and blow the window in the back?
I would agree with the post above, you need a good quality Sub.
I would also get away from the DVC's. I had 2 10" Hifonics oplympians pushed by a 100 autotek and washiznitting 168dB, These were in a sealed enclosure so the responce was tight as well. all behinf the seat of a 94 sonoma if you are familiar with those trucks you know a regular cab has very little room. you can have what your looking for just keep in mind your going to have to pay for it. The main reason i got out of stereo was the endless upgrading to stay competetive.
well the only reason im gonna stick with pioneers is bc my bro let me get 2 of his old ones that were still good and we put them in and got the hit i was looking for. but i traded him the subs back for the seats that are in my mustang now. but at the time cougar. and didnt have a problem in the cougar. but from the cougar to this car night and day and this is way smaller of a car. i still think i need half the box i have now or a devider between the two not 2 in one open box like it is now. could this have anything to do with my problem.
Yes the two subs in one box could be a problem the next is the stang a hatch or notch.
As for half the box not sure check the specs and if in dought fill the box with polyfill it will 1: make the box smaller if needed or 2: make the box bigger if needed.
Also what kind of amp are you using?
Sound should be close if not better in the hatch back due to the harmonics of the vehicle, are you sure the subs are in phase. If not (which is really easy to do) the 2 subs will cacel each other out giving you poor sound and very little "punch"
what Amp? running bridgemono? what Ohm load? stereo? what ohm load? What ohm are the speakers (problably 4 ohm each VC to make an 8 ohm speaker).
where do i get this from?
amp is a legacy ???? 1000 watter. i'll look for the box tomorrow to get you specs on it . 4 channle
how do i know if they are in phase?? yeah they are 4-8 ohm speakers. im just running them plain jain. i tryed bridging them but wasnt to happy with it and it wasnt what i wanted
oh yeah a pioneer HU 6500 with sub pre outs
thanks for all the info guys
ok make sure your negative and positives are connected correctly to the amp, if they got reversed they will give problems. Also another thing to try, seperate both speakers, as speakers get old the VC get weak, if 1 is getting weak the other will over power it and essentially cancel it. always best to seperate subs or at least place them in seperate chambers.
You can get polyfill from wall-mart its also known ass the fiber pillow stuffing.
ok so if i put a wall between the two subs that should help get the punch i need? or help prevent the subs from cancleing them selfs out?
cool im gonna go check that suff out. where is it usually in walmart. by the pillows? lol
ok thanks again
The dreaded craft section. It is usualy sold in big bags. It looks like the stuff in stuffed animals.
A few more question. What stereo are you using? Do you know what voltage the pre amps are putting out?
These are soming you need to look at. My pioneer are putting out about 2.2volts. Now I have an amp I can adjust the for the incoming voltage. This will make a big difference.
Your radio can run any where from 1 to 5 volts. And believe me there is a huge difference between 1 and 5.
so your saying i can adjust the pre out volts . no way thats sick. how do i do it. im using the 6700 pioneer modle. it's about 2years old now so
He is right there is an amazing difference. 6700 is a 2.2V pre out which is about a standard. Another question though, How many subs are you running and i needs 4 ohm load specs on your amp or at least a modem number and i can pull it up. also a model number on the subs as well. I'm not positive but im pretty sure if you throwing 1000W at pioneers you going to cook them.
My guess is this is the amp you are running, correct?
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/itempage.asp?model=LA670
If so, it looks like this amp is rated at 1000 watts peak power, meaning i'm sure it only puts out about 500 watts RMS, probably even less if it is overrated. So when this amp is bridged, I'm sure it would put out less than 250 x 2 at 4 ohms.
2 10" Polk MM10's in a nice sealed box with pleny of poewr. They are small enclosure subs, so it should be able to tuck right up to the back seat and leave the whole rest of the trunk open. I had 1 in my Turbo Grand Prix and it was LOUD!!
I had 3 JL 12w3's in the trunk of my SHO and it didn't hit much harder.
If the amp shown is in fact what you have i would wire it up in a 4 ohm mono load, Basically wire the voice coils on each speaker in series, + to - the take the + off both speakes wire the together ans the to bridge mono + on the amp. do the same for the -. with the two four ohm VC in series changes that into essentially an 8 ohm speaker, then by parrelling(SP) them you take it back down to a 4 ohm. If you need further help with wiring it for bridge mono send me an email at reugoff@gmail.com. This is also dependent on what speakers exactly you are using and their RMS value, I'm not sure how pioneer rates thier subs in a max or RMS if they give you max power multiply it by .707 that will give you your RMS. RMS is what the speaker is capable of handleing all day with no problems, Peak is the threshold for the speaker most if they ever touch peak will only do it once. Always base you power on RMS, same goes for an amp 1000W peak is not the same as 1000w RMS.
No, what I was saying is with most over the counter mega mart store amps there is no adjustment. The Sound stream 502 rubicon I have for my memphis 12's has the adjustment on the amp. It will work just a little harder for you if you are running say 2.2v where as the car I took it out of was runnig 4.0v. The adjustment compensates for the voltage difference.
If you are looking at getting a good amp, as in adjustability, look at the rubicon and human raign series from sound stream, amd the early modle punch amps from rockford fosgate.
The first pic is the human raign
The second is the punch
The thrid is the rubicon
Can you even bridge a 4 channel amp to 1 channel? I thought you could only bridge it to 2 channels? In that case, he would have to wire each speaker in series for an 8 ohm load on each speaker. Then, each speaker would be wired to a separate channel. That would mean he would be putting about 125 watts RMS to each pioneer.
your right i did mis read it is a4 chan, but he can wire each voice coil per speaker in parallel to get a 2 ohm load then he would meet the requirements of the 2 ohm stereo load the amp says it can handle. assuming he has 4 ohm DVC
my amp is the LA690 1000w max power and my subs are
ts-w105dvc. im not sure what ohms they are.or what ohms they can run on.
Erik. thanks for all this info guys
Looks like it's this:
http://www.legacycaraudio.com/itempage.asp?model=LA690
and this:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_35351,00.html
From the looks of it, no matter how you wire it you're going to be underpowering those speakers. If you bridge the amp to 2 channels and wire each sub in series, you will have an 8 ohm impedance. That will be putting about 125 watts RMS to each sub, when they can handle 350 watts RMS. Thats about 1/3 of the power you could be pushing to them.
If those were my subs, I would buy a new mono amp that would provide the subs with adequate power, and save the 4 channel amp for something else. But that is just my opinion.
yep thats them
With those speakers your outa luck, if you wire in an 8 owm load you not going to get enough power, wire it in a 2 ohm stereo your going to get to much power. 8 ohm youll get 125 watts to little for those subs like was stated earlier in a 2 ohm stereo youll get 500 per sub to much for the 350W nom rating. by my caculation those speakers should handle 494W all day with no problems this is based upon the 700W peak power rating, 700 x .707 = 494 RMS power, i would wire them into a 2 ohm stereo. ill draw a diagram and post it later.
You cannot wire them to 2 ohm stereo, the amp will only handle 4 ohm stereo when bridged. And the RMS value for the speakers is already there on the page, at 350 watts RMS.
Nominal is not the same as RMS and yes it is 2 ohm stereo. Wire your subs in to a 2 ohm load (voice coils in parelle(sp)assuming yo have two 4 ohm voice coils) then connet the + of speaker 1 to the + of channel 1 on the amp and the - of speaker 1 to the - of channel 2, + of speaker 2 to the + of channel 3 and the - of speaker 2 to the - of channel 3. that would be wiring in a 2 ohm stereo. check your owners manual to make sure this is correct this is how most 2 ohm stereos amps are wired, some make it tricky though.
4 Channel Amplification
Tri-Way Output Configuration:
4 x 250 Watts Output
2 x 500 Watts Bridged Output
2 x 250 Watts Front + 1 x 500 Watts Rear
1000 Watts Total Output
Polished Chrome Finish w/Plexiglass Panel
Remote Control Bass Booster (0~12dB @ 60Hz)
Fully Adjustable Electronic Crossover Network
Soft turn On/Off Circuit
[COLOR="Red"]2 Ohm Stereo Stable [/COLOR][/I][/B]
Bridgeable into 4 Ohms
Dual MOSFET PWM Power Supplies
Variable Gain Control
Remote Turn On/Off
Hi/Lo Level Inputs
Power On LED Indicator
LED Protection Indicator
S/N Ratio: >90dB
THD: <0.04%
Frequency Response: 10Hz-30k Hz
Thermal, Overload & Short Circuit Protection
Dimensions: 2''H x 11''W x 12.2''L
Then why does it say bridgeable into 4 ohms? With what you are saying, aren't you bridging 2 channels on each side?
Yes you are bridging 2 channels, into a 2Ohm stereo load. Unfortunately My adobe is screwing up and i cant read all the specs on it, Me personally i would get new subs to handle more power and a new amp sell what he has on E-bay.
I didn't even look at the manual. After taking a look at the manual, it even states that minimum speaker impedance when bridged is 4 ohms. Attached is a screenshot from the manual.
Then he's screwed with his current set-up.
If you are still looking into to bass in your door idea and you have the cash of course you could always try these (http://"http://www.blaupunktusa.com/BlaupunktUSA/Products/Speakers/Overdrive/Subwoofer/ODw1000HP.htm"). Yeah, I realize they are expensive, and it would take a lot of custom work, but you are talking about a pretty exotic speaker setup. And as far as what tbird85 said on not going over 10" for rock, I have a dual voice coil Infinity reference 12" that handles all the double bass Arch Enemy, Tourniquet, Living Sacrifice, Narnia, and even tons of techno can dish out. If you really want to go high end, check out http://www.reaudio.com :bowdown: they have some very amazing products. I realize it seems like you are on a budget, but maybe you can return to this in the future when you get more money to invest. Just thought I'd add my two cents.
I've always like infinity, cant beat them for their sound quality, been years since i got out of the stero scene. I know there are alot of new things. Back when I did it it was always a rule of thumb 10 for rapid beat 12+ for the Hum... Post some pics of you set-up if you would i would like to see it, and have you had it metered what ddi you hit?
Haha, it's pretty ghetto rigged right now. Since I like to keep my full size spare, it's crammed in the corner. I did actually try it mounted in the middle of the trunk and it didn't hit as hard. I haven't had it metered yet though.
My full setup is as follows.
Kenwood KDC 4019 head unit
Kenwood 5 1/4" 2-way coaxial speakers up front.
Infinity Kappa 6x9" 3 way coaxial speakers in rear.
Infinity Reference 12" Dual Voice Coil subwoofer.
Rockford Fosgate Sp series 300 watt amplifier.
The amp is pretty weak for what that sub can handle, but the rest of the system sounds good.
As far as that old rule of thumb, it still pretty much remains true as far as single voice coil subs go. A friend of mine has 2 pioneer 10's mounted in his Elantra and I swear mine outperforms his on sound quality, and loudness. The sub was a great deal too, I picked it up at Ultimate ELectronis for 80 bucks.
Here's some pics. Sorry they are py cam phone pics, it's just what was easiet though.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/DakotaEpic/trunk2.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/DakotaEpic/Trunk1.jpg)
Not bad, I used to use Hifonics and Autotek (same company), 2 10's with a 100W rated amp. People hated it, the rating on the amp was misprinted on all model it was a 601ex, true rating of 600W. It hit nicely ill see if i can scrounge up some pics.
ok so ive done some diggin and have comeup with this. due to unproperly hooking up the subs i have a voice coil on each sub burt out. not giving me the sound i need or want. so during the week im gonna go talk to my stereo guy and see what he can do for subs and a new amp to just power the subs. i know they have the same ones i have now. but would like to upgrade to the new model just to be new.
so my legacy amp will just be for the rear speakers in the car or what ever i choose it to be for. and my 300watt pioneer i will put off to the side or sell to a buddy.
as for subs and amp tell me what you guys think i'll link them to the page.
subs http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_153020676,00.html?compName=PNA_Produc tDetailComponent (http://"http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_153020676,00.html?compName=PNA_Produc tDetailComponent")
amp
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_183982244_152869076,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent (http://"http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_183982244_152869076,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent")
If you are going to run the mono amp with the DVC I would look into the amp and see if it's 1ohm stable.
Because when you run all 4 voice coils to the amp its running 1 ohm which can overheat things quick.
I would look for SVC and them it would be a 2ohm load.
Not to be mean or anything why pioneer there are alot of nicer subs and amps for about the same price. Pioneer are good dont get me wrong. but if your going to do it do it right. And i would stay away from DVC unless you know for a fact your amp can handle a 1 ohm load, if its only 2 ohm stable get to 4 Ohm SVC subs
*edit*
I just read the specs on the amp and subs...... amp 800 Watts, 360W RMS in a 2 Ohm load only 250W RMOS in a 4 Ohm. On the bright side Sig>noise and THD are great so it is going to be a clean amp. You do realise if you try to ever enter into a competition you will be in the 500-1000w class only pushing 360 Watts. Unless they have changed the rules in the past few years. I owuld definatly look for something other than pioneer.
well you could hook them up as a SVC just need to take a positive from one and the negative from the other. wolla svc. but the amp does say it can handle the new subs all day long (TS-W106DVC) so im guessing it could also handle my old ones (in good shape.)
well i like the pioneer products ive heard systems way beter than mine but i like the bang for the buck. like i said b4 my subs would probably be allrite if we didnt hook them up wrong. (oh well we live and learn.) they do work just a svc. im also going to talk to my stereo guy and see what he recomends me get. as for an amp to run with the subs.
Doing what you saying would take a 4 Ohm DVC and turn it into an 8 Ohm SVC. Not a good idea if you want any decent sound. if you brdge those you are still going into a 4 ohm mono load and whats the point.
oh. i didnt know that. so the lower the ohms the beter ? oh and by the way im not really set on a pioneer amp. so maybe and mtx i will get .my brothers got one and it's nice.
Yes lower ohms the better, BUT you have to make sure your amp is capable of handleing that load, Lower the load the hotter tha amp, Most amps will handle a 2 ohm load easily. THe pioneer you showed is only capable of a 2 ohm which you will not beable to get with 4 ohm DVC's
well why do they say this. it's just doesnt make sence thats all unless they just want to sell product.
The key work there is "a Dual Voice Sub". That would be perfect for running only one, because you could wire the voice coils to a 2 ohm load. But since you want to run 2 of those subs, that amp would not work.
Ok, If you insist on usint DVC get two 8 ohm DVC's these can be wired into a 2 ohm load. just connect all the pos (+) together and all the negs (-) together on the subs wire it to the bridge mono on the amps and you have a 2 ohm mono load.
well maybe i should only run one bc of the size of a box and all. im not insisiting on running a DVC. i was just throwing that pair together to see what you all thought. thanks for all the help im a little clearer on the subject now.
would a single 10 inch DVC run on a 2 ohm load give me what im looking for ? the nice clean hit with a punch ?
yes a 4 OHM DVC can be wired into a 2 Ohm. take the + from each coil wire them together and the - and wire them together. Makes it a 2 Ohm SVC essentially
We'll I put two 10" in my rear deck and 2 12" behind the rear seat. I did do alot of work to seal the trunk from the interior of the car. I fiberglassed the rear deck under the carpet. I removed all rear interior plastic and seat. I sealed all the air gaps with expand foam. behing the rear seat I drilled ou the spot welds on the cross memeber. Then I installed to layers of 3/4" plywood. bolted it down around the outer edge. fibergleassed it in. The bass is tight acurate and LOUD. more than I could have asked for. Plust I still have trunk space.