Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 06:47:42 AM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 06:47:42 AM
What are we using to reinforce the torque boxes these days? Just welding the seams?
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Sancho on September 21, 2017, 10:12:50 AM
Post by: Sancho on September 21, 2017, 10:12:50 AM
Mustang battle boxes fit, on my 3.8 I had just welded the seam after tearing them. I would not simply weld them, its not a resolution only a bandaid.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: 1WLD BRD on September 21, 2017, 12:51:32 PM
Post by: 1WLD BRD on September 21, 2017, 12:51:32 PM
I fully welded mine. It far from a bandaid. It is a solution. They tear out because they are only tack welded from the factory. With them fully welded you won't rip one out. My last bird was launching at high RPMs with slicks on the juice in ny mild built 5.0 and it never hurt them.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 04:09:10 PM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 04:09:10 PM
So ironically enough, with enough searching, I found a thread with the same title as this one with pictures of the battle boxes installed. Apparently my search skills are lacking these days.
So it appears that the reinforcements need to be lengthened and redrilled for this application.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?13603-Torque-Boxes
So it appears that the reinforcements need to be lengthened and redrilled for this application.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?13603-Torque-Boxes
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 21, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 21, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
I read this: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/tech_rear_susp_rlca.aspx
Bought these: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Extreme-Duty-Adjustable-Rear-lower-Control-Arms-1983-1989-Thunderbird-P1444.aspx
Beat the snot of of the car and the torque boxes are still mint.
Bought these: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Extreme-Duty-Adjustable-Rear-lower-Control-Arms-1983-1989-Thunderbird-P1444.aspx
Beat the snot of of the car and the torque boxes are still mint.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 05:12:08 PM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 21, 2017, 05:12:08 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;462836
I read this: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/tech_rear_susp_rlca.aspx
Bought these: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Extreme-Duty-Adjustable-Rear-lower-Control-Arms-1983-1989-Thunderbird-P1444.aspx
Beat the snot of of the car and the torque boxes are still mint.
I've actually read that page many times throughout the years. I've also seen what my driving style can do to a set of torque boxes. My previous car didn't make serious power, nor did I even run sticky tires, but my torque boxes had stretch marks. Never seen it on any other car, nor had my buddies.
I figure, any preventative step is never a bad thing.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 21, 2017, 06:27:37 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 21, 2017, 06:27:37 PM
I've done runs at the track (on street tires) and haven't done any damage as of yet, even with the lard ass car weighing over 3700lbs with me. Maybe slicks and a high rpm launch would mess the torque boxes up but I haven't had any issues.
If you're killing torque boxes with a ~200HP 2.3T you have some skills :D
Edit: did you change the rear control arms or bushings (to poly) on the car that had the issue?
If you're killing torque boxes with a ~200HP 2.3T you have some skills :D
Edit: did you change the rear control arms or bushings (to poly) on the car that had the issue?
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 22, 2017, 07:41:36 AM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 22, 2017, 07:41:36 AM
I was making closer to 300, but it wasn't the power that was the main stressor. I was mean to that car. I had air under all 4 tires before. I beat the hell out of it on the back roads and took my anger out on it constantly.
That car had 100% stock suspension. I did a 5-lug conversion and some brake upgrades, but that was it.
That car had 100% stock suspension. I did a 5-lug conversion and some brake upgrades, but that was it.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 08:22:58 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 08:22:58 AM
Well shiznit bounce landings are going to screw up any car. Much worse than any hard launch or cornering. As long as you don't get air or run solid poly bushings, you should be ok.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Aerocoupe on September 22, 2017, 08:58:11 AM
Post by: Aerocoupe on September 22, 2017, 08:58:11 AM
Welded up the torque boxes on both my Foxes and that was 23 years ago on the Bird (1994) when the Global West subframe connecters, long tube headers with a full daul exhaust (shaging nightmare), and T-5 were installed. Welded them up on the Coupe in 2000 when the Gobal West subrames were installed on that car. There was an article in Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords on how to weld them up with some stiffeners that you can make yourself out of s metal so this is what I did on both of them. When I say I did this I mean my buddy that has mad welding skills, I just made all the stiffeners as we were going with some gauge sheet metal, a jig saw, and a file. I think I scanned the article and if I did I will post it up later this evening or over the weekend.
I literally drove the Coupe like I stole it from 2000 to 2008 (daily driver with 300+ rwhp and 300+ ftlbs) and multiple sets of sticky tires...torque boxes are 100% legit. I did not drive it off road or on shiznitty roads, it has Maximum Motorsports lowers on it and I maintain my cars.
For me battle boxes on a for real street car are a waste of money. One a drag strip car with stock suspension rules I can see where you would want to do it.
I literally drove the Coupe like I stole it from 2000 to 2008 (daily driver with 300+ rwhp and 300+ ftlbs) and multiple sets of sticky tires...torque boxes are 100% legit. I did not drive it off road or on shiznitty roads, it has Maximum Motorsports lowers on it and I maintain my cars.
For me battle boxes on a for real street car are a waste of money. One a drag strip car with stock suspension rules I can see where you would want to do it.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Sancho on September 22, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
Post by: Sancho on September 22, 2017, 12:01:45 PM
I suppose I should've clarified, I did weld my torque boxes after they ripped. If I had the chance to stiffen them before they ripped I would do it, only because it wasn't a very fun process at the time.
Those full adjustable torque boxes for the mustangs look pretty neat though, sorta a reverse trac bracket.
Those full adjustable torque boxes for the mustangs look pretty neat though, sorta a reverse trac bracket.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
I'm pretty sure most people will be fine without them. Myself I seen no need. Now if you're doing crazy things like jumping the car weld those suckers tight and re-enforce them.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 22, 2017, 05:23:18 PM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 22, 2017, 05:23:18 PM
I know I may never need to have then reinforced, but if the car is getting subframe connectors, I'd like to have the car bulletproofed in one swoop.
I didnt intend on jumping the car! I had a friend in the car and he was trash talking. I dropped a gear and was ripping down a road that was ground down and the hump where it met the fresh pavement put air under the car.
I didnt intend on jumping the car! I had a friend in the car and he was trash talking. I dropped a gear and was ripping down a road that was ground down and the hump where it met the fresh pavement put air under the car.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 07:37:48 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 22, 2017, 07:37:48 PM
If possible I'd do the control arms at the same time. They have to come out to weld reinforcement plates in the torque boxes.
If you can swing it either of the Maximum Motorsports pieces are quality, nice control arms. My buddy with a Mark VII has the CHE rear control arms. While better than stock, and nice, the Maximum Motorsports pieces I have are just that much nicer. They cost almost double though so they better be.
If you can swing it either of the Maximum Motorsports pieces are quality, nice control arms. My buddy with a Mark VII has the CHE rear control arms. While better than stock, and nice, the Maximum Motorsports pieces I have are just that much nicer. They cost almost double though so they better be.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 25, 2017, 03:35:15 AM
Post by: Tbird232ci on September 25, 2017, 03:35:15 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;462882
If possible I'd do the control arms at the same time. They have to come out to weld reinforcement plates in the torque boxes.
If you can swing it either of the Maximum Motorsports pieces are quality, nice control arms. My buddy with a Mark VII has the CHE rear control arms. While better than stock, and nice, the Maximum Motorsports pieces I have are just that much nicer. They cost almost double though so they better be.
I intend on getting the MM extreme duty arms. I really like their pivot ball design, and want it on both ends. I have control arms on my Trans Am that are similar in bushing design, and it almost seems pointless when one end articulates, but not the other. It seems like it will get rid of only 'some' binding.
So I was browsing thecorral.net, since I got my password reset, and found this post pertaining to this topic:
Quote from: Jack Hidley
Unless the torque boxes are already damaged from the car being jacked up or the car using a very overconstrained rear suspension system, there is no reason to do anything to them when running a TA/PHB rear suspension.
Most torque boxes are damaged from the car being jacked up by them. When jacked up from the wrong location, this causes the spot welds to start tearing.
Very few torque boxes are damaged from the acceleration forces that the RLCAs are applying to the chassis, even in a 9 second car. The damage comes from a very overconstrained rear suspension system. This style of rear suspension, DOUBLES the load on the torque box, in a 9.5 second, 3,300lbs Mustang, compared to a TA/PHB rear suspension car. This is because the overconstraining causes the rear axle assembly to become one giant 2.88" diameter swaybar. This puts huge loads on the torque boxes and UCA mounts that do not need to be there.
I would never install a torque box reinforcement kit. If you want, just have a good welder, add a 50% on/off stitch weld to the seams in the torque boxes. There is plenty of material there, but it is spot welded together. Welding the seams will keep the spot welds from ever start peeling.
With that being said, I'm still considering them. If they don't help, they aren't hurting. I have a car with 224K miles on it and who knows what the thing has seen.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Cougar5.0 on September 25, 2017, 11:14:56 AM
Post by: Cougar5.0 on September 25, 2017, 11:14:56 AM
I welded mine up, and also welded on these finger plates that tie them into the subframes. Seems like a good way to help ensure the force is transferred forward.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 25, 2017, 03:17:16 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 25, 2017, 03:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tbird232ci;462904
I intend on getting the MM extreme duty arms. I really like their pivot ball design, and want it on both ends. I have control arms on my Trans Am that are similar in bushing design, and it almost seems pointless when one end articulates, but not the other. It seems like it will get rid of only 'some' binding.
I think you'd be happy with them. MM says they transmit more NVH but, at least for me, all I notice is more differential gear noise. I can only hear it with the windows up and the A/C on, radio off. Not a deal breaker for me at all. The car rides nice and firm, actually much better after replacing the stock control arms.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 25, 2017, 03:18:16 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 25, 2017, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;462908
I welded mine up, and also welded on these finger plates that tie them into the subframes. Seems like a good way to help ensure the force is transferred forward.
Should have done that when I had the subframe connectors installed years ago. Oh well. Too late now.
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Aerocoupe on September 26, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
Post by: Aerocoupe on September 26, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
Those plates kinda look like the Competition Engineering plates.
http://www.shopcompetitionengineering.com/ceb/catalog/navigationPath//%7B26436%7D::Torque%20Box%20Reinforcement%20Plates,%20Lower.html?entryId=catalog.productgroup.&expand=true&menuId=main.menu
http://www.shopcompetitionengineering.com/ceb/catalog/navigationPath//%7B26436%7D::Torque%20Box%20Reinforcement%20Plates,%20Lower.html?entryId=catalog.productgroup.&expand=true&menuId=main.menu
Title: Torque boxes
Post by: Cougar5.0 on September 26, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
Post by: Cougar5.0 on September 26, 2017, 02:46:37 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;462927
Those plates kinda look like the Competition Engineering plates.
http://www.shopcompetitionengineering.com/ceb/catalog/navigationPath//%7B26436%7D::Torque%20Box%20Reinforcement%20Plates,%20Lower.html?entryId=catalog.productgroup.&expand=true&menuId=main.menu
Nice - I had no idea where I got them from.
Looks like they were beaten a bit to fit the application. I don't think the pic above is my car tho, I can't recall if I needed to beat them much to get them in place.
Beat and weld, weld and beat :hick: