Yesterday I switched from a GT40 intake to a Performer RPM intake (the original not the RPM II) in my Thunderbird. After checking for leaks, checking engine vacuum (17 inches like before the swap), and setting the base timing to 16* BTDC I took the car out for a drive. I have heard from multiple sources that this swap would be a bad idea. The intake doesn't match the operating range of the cam, the intake is too big for my setup, the intake will make the engine lose low end torque, the GT40 is better for my car because of it's weight (car is 3700lbs+ with driver). Well they were all wrong :D. Driving around at low throttle the car acts just like it did with the GT40. No bucking, plenty of torque off the line to get the car moving, no low end loss, etc. Start jamming on the throttle and the fun begins :burnout:. The engine revs noticeably quicker than it did before. Half throttle from a stop still results in massive wheel spin and the car going sideways like it did with the GT40 but it takes longer for the tires to grab. 1/2 throttle to WOT between 20-40mph results in wheel spin, which with the GT40 requires temps below 50*. The car feels much more spoogey than it did with the GT40 intake. When the weather cools off I'll take it to the track and report back. It feels like the car might pick up 1-2 tenths and 1-2mph from this swap.
I think if someone where to put that intake on stock heads it would suffer but definably not with matching heads. im gathering parts for mine to go from e7 and explorer intake to trick flow street heat intake and twisted wedge track heat heads. my motor has a b303 in and ill probably end up doing 1.7 rr.. im curious as to the intake is a idle-5500 range and the cam is 2500-6500 hopefuly its a decent combo
I wonder about the difference between your new intake, and my tubular GT-40 with the TMoss ported lower. The ports were matched to the Trick Flow heads, and were opened up from top to bottom. I use a 70mm throttle body on mine.
.........and where are the pics? You know the rules!!!!! LOL.
It's not only heads and cam operating range but gearing as well. With a 2800rpm stall converter and 3.73 gears I want max torque/horsepower to be in the 3000-6000rpm range and also average power there as well. The RPM intake should do that better than the GT40, but track times will have to prove that out. I plan on going to the track to test it out the next time the track is open and it's below 70* outside. Which may not be for a couple of months.
You may pick up something with a Holley Systemax. However your cam was designed with a GT40 intake in mind. The GT40 isn't restricting your heads (the GT40 on mine was as it wasn't ported). I though about getting a GT40 lower ported for mine but the cost of another lower + porting was within ~$35 of what I paid for the Performer RPM.
I've got some py cell phone pictures. Underhood is still a bit dirty from the swap (I also nicked some paint on the A/C lines). The only thing that bugs me about the new intake is it sits closer to the back of the distributor so I can't get the distributor boot to fit.
Before:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/20150113_125625_zps37494262.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/20150113_125625_zps37494262.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/20150113_125646_zpspanwnoln.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/20150113_125646_zpspanwnoln.jpg.html)
After:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094105_zps2ij5hgu5.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094105_zps2ij5hgu5.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094144_zpsmzqnfx7h.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094144_zpsmzqnfx7h.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094327_zps6jqnkxp9.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/20150609_094327_zps6jqnkxp9.jpg.html)
I will check the pics this evening. I'm at work, and the computers we have won't show pictures on the forum. Good point about my cam and intake. As it sits, the cam was designed for the engine exactly as it sits. I'm ready to step away from working on it. I can focus on cleaning, setailing, and other things now.
There has to be a way to get your distributor boot on. I'd hate for mine not to be there. Are you going to paint your upper intake (asking this question because I can't see pics til this evening)? If so, is it feasable to remove a small amount of material from it to allow the boot to fit, then paint it?
It's already painted. And not Ford blue ;)
When I had the Trick Flow intake on mine a couple of years ago, I had the same issue. I trimmed the bottom of the back of the boot just enough to allow the boot to fit. It washiznitting where the upper and lower went together.
Cell picks look great. Why are you talking to vinnie about intakes!!lol.
You have the non lock up trans yet?
Kitz? Really? LOL. LOL. Yeah, I've been though two or three intakes and a couple of sets o valve covers, but those days are done. THAT's why I got the custom cam. Kinda locks me into what I have. LOL.
Looks sharp Lou...nice work. From the sound of things, you'll definitely pick up a tenth at least..
X2 on Vinnie and intake swappin....what are yous doing? Having a swap contest? LOL
I'm done...I'm REALLY done. LOL
Yep. 2800 stall non-lockup PI Stallion converter.
that is a jaw dropping engine bay!!!! very nice work looks factory. clean not butchered
I can't stand the non-lockup converter my red car has. I wish I hadn't let Dirty Dog convince me otherwise. I mean I do generally cruise at 75-80 on the highway but that's about 2700-2800 rpm anyway. It's a 3000 rpm converter so it's not quite stalled. The thing absolutely drinks gas :hick:
Yes, I know, the 2-3 shift has a reverse of direction in addition to a big ratio change. As they explained to me. Yaaaaknow what I say? What Bill O'Reilly once said: "F*** IT! WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!!!" :rollin: Most of the time I let off the gas during upshifts anyway. I developed it years ago as an overkill habit. So there LOL.
When I got home last night and looked at the pictures, it does look like my Trick Flow setup I had as far as the proximity of the intake to the distributor. Just cut a section from the back of the boot (I have extras if you need one, just shoot me your address and I'll send one), and it'll fit. I always thought that helped to clean up the look of the engine.
Thanks. It shouldn't look butchered when you install aftermarket parts. If it does you're doing it wrong ;).
Really? At 75mph the car still gets ~23mpg even though it's a couple hundred RPM below stall speed. Driving my Mark VII with the stock converter that locks up in 3rd there is a noticeable drop off in acceleration vs. the non-lockup converter. I actually prefer the non-lockup converter as far as drive feel goes. I can also care less how much 93 octane Shell my Thunderbird drinks. I've got a Focus to drive every day and get good mileage with.
Thanks for the idea. I'll try cutting a bit from the back of the boot until it just fits. I've got a couple of extras sitting around.
I do LOVE being able to flash the thing at any time and get a nudge forward...I've done little highway with it but I know the digital readout doesn't stay above 20 much under any cirspoogestances. I'll have to test it more. And there are other things not guaranteed too...O2 sensors, the fact that I have a 160 degree stat, EGR vac line plugged off, etc.
The thing is I'm pondering taking it to Mustang week in SC with my friends since I grenaded the other cat. The one guy....*might*...take his newly acquired Terminator. With a 3k RPM'd 4R70W, Whipple 2.9, etc...thing gets
95 miles to a tank right now. Mustang Magic in LI dyno'd it at 576 RWHP. They declared it to be in good health. So it could always be worse!! I'm just so used to fuel, comparatively, lasting days and days and days in the black car.
That would be less then 6mpg, that's absolutely ridiculous. For my daily commute, i would have to fill up twice to pick my kids up from daycare.
I've got the EGR removed to no ill effect on gas mileage. Just don't break the red Cougar like the black one on this trip ;).
I was going to say 576rwhp might have something to do with that but a GT500 with around the same amount of power gets better mileage.
I drove the Thunderbird around today. Highway passing power has been much improved by the swap. In 90* air Temps with the A/C set on 70* blipping the throttle to the floor at 65mph causes the car to pretty much instantly gain 10-15 mph. Top end pull has been improved noticeably.
That's good that it's worked out, sounds you found a good combo despite some nay-sayers :)
Update on that Terminator....that was with a screwed up tune with a bunch of monitors shut off. That part of the story I forgot about. But it WAS drinking it like that. So we'll see what it does now.
I can only assume the black car's heart failure was due to me just slapping the adjustable roller rockers back in during the end of winter 2014, and not adjusting them. What else would cause a broken spring...? The red car's engine has been together as it sits since spring 2012. Bottom end has never been taken apart, and the entire top end is still all factory Ford parts. All H.O. items (intake ported of course) except for the heads. So "I do not antite any issues with this event". Ha.
Well the red Cougar should be fine then :).
So you just slapped the rockers back on the black Cougar without adjusting each one individually? That will definitely cause them to fall off the stud and/or break a spring :hick:.
I don't know all of the numbers off hand but I keep wondering if the tolerances are close enough that it might have in fact been the cause. Good to hear! Truly! LOL. That is exactly what I did. Slapped 'em on. Maybe because the hex adjusters weren't prominently visible...it just never entered my head.
That'll do it!
Thanks to Vinnie for the suggestion of tpuppies a little off the back of the distributor boot to make it fit. I removed about 1/4" form the bottom rear of the boot and it fits again :). I also touched up all the A/C lines I scratched when swapping the intake on.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/rpmf_zpskhnpisid.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/rpmf_zpskhnpisid.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/rpmp_zpsjfbmsgro.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/rpmp_zpsjfbmsgro.jpg.html)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/Thunderbird%20web/rpmd_zpsl7jc0b2w.jpg) (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/thunderjet302/media/Thunderbird%20web/rpmd_zpsl7jc0b2w.jpg.html)
Look fairly snug on the air tube and strut brace. No contact when the engine is revved?
, looks sharp.
Next step...forced induction? :D
With the departure of 100% stock looking parts, your wallets the limit now ;). I always feel terrible about my engine bay after seeing yours, it looks good.
Actually the tube clears the strut tower brace fine. It's closer now as the Performer RPM throttle body mount is .5" higher and .3" forward from a stock/GT40 intake. When revved the tube doesn't hit the brace. However when I'm driving and hit a bump the air tube clanks off the strut tower brace. You can hear it in the car and it sounds like the car has worn shocks or bad bushings :mullet:. I "fixed" the issue with a short length of heater hose wrapped around the strut tower where the air tube hit it. Hence the rubber you see on the brace by the air tube.
Blower isn't going to happen on this engine. It has hyper pistons which aren't really friendly with boost. My next plan down the road is probably giving FTI a call for a custom cam/spring package to really wake the engine up and tie everything together.
Looks really good. Although I do kind of miss seeing that ford blue on the upper.