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Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on March 08, 2015, 08:22:08 PM

Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 08, 2015, 08:22:08 PM
I swapped the head gaskets. Everything went well. The car is idling great. No smoke, but under acceleration, THICK smoke. I haven't pulled the plugs yet to see what they can tell me. I am starting to think the rings may be heading south on me.

I pulled the tube from the valve cover, and a steady strong stream of air was blowing out. Oil in the intake as well.

I have an extra short block in the garage, and will start getting it together. I have pretty much everything for it except a new water pump and I think I'll grab a new timing cover as well, that way, when the time comes to swap, it'll be ready except for heads and intake.

I also have decided I am going back to the E-303 cam. I always liked that cam. The Ed Curtis cam will find a new home. Ever since I replaced the heads and cam, I've had nothing but trouble and as good as the car looks, it hasn't been worth the effort. SO, kind of going to take a couple of steps back and do some thinking.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: V8Demon on March 08, 2015, 09:48:08 PM
Is at all the time under acceleration? 

I'd check the valve stem seals before I tore it apart....
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 08, 2015, 11:10:08 PM
It's just under heavy acceleration. That's it. Under normal driving, it's fine. No smoke.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on March 08, 2015, 11:26:10 PM
Vinnie, you did a compression test awhile back, no?

Btw, your oil pressure tube mounter upper thing is headed your way in the AM. I misplaced the one that I thought was on my bench, so I took the one from another HO engine, and cleaned it up and it's sitting here on my desk, ready to visit you. Unless you don't want it now, what with your current scenario? :)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 08, 2015, 11:46:07 PM
I highly doubt it's the camshaft causing the oil burning. It's either valve stem seals (which I doubt if the heads are new) or the rings going south. Unless the lower intake isn't sealed correctly and the engine is sucking oil from the lifter valley.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 08, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Beau, send it out. Thanks. Also, I'll do a compression test this coming Saturday. I think the rings are going bad. Honestly, I don't care what the problem is, as long as I KNOW what the problem is.

I don't think the cam is the cause at all. I have wondered about the intake as well, but how can I make it seal any better? New gaskets (of course)....Fel Pro Mustang Cobra gaskets., set it down on studs to keep everything lined up, torquing them the correct way.........Is there a thicker intake gasket? I never have wondered that before. LOL.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 01:43:14 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;445761

I pulled the tube from the valve cover, and a steady strong stream of air was blowing out. Oil in the intake as well.


If the rings are sealing there should never be blowing from a valve cover... Such condition can be aggravated by a defective PCV valve or maybe it's vac line has collapsed, still anything more than a slight puff means you have a serious problem...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 07:42:37 AM
TOM!!! Is that you?!!!! Good to "see" you again. Yeah, I think the rings are probably going as well. I think I'll swap the PCV as well just in case, but as I stated, it has zero smoke under normal driving. But hit the gas, and the smoke show starts. It will smoke until I let off the gas and drive calmly. It's the spirited driving that can't be done at the moment.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 11:13:59 AM
Another question....how far can the catch can between the PCV and intake be? Mewaning, if I mounted one at the front of the car, near the area where the factory air box was, is that too far away?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 11:26:53 AM
I honestly dunno, but as long as there are no vacuum leaks I doubt distance makes a difference...

I take it you've had some oil blowing so added the catch can out of necessity???
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 11:39:34 AM
I'm going to install one until the replacement engine is ready (*and I have the time to swap it in). It seems to be driving fine under regular conditions. I may have gotten the car up to 45 on the way to work. No issues. But, being who we all are, I would like to run it hard every now and again, so, engine swap in the not so distant future.

As I as asking above, when installing a catch can, do I need to cap off the valve cover and the throttle body, only leaving the PCV valve (Pcv hose to catch can, then catch can to intake)?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 11:52:46 AM
There are various ways but I'd just feed it from the breather line at top of oil fill tube, then plug the line into the throttle body... The can does need to be vented or pressure will likely blow the line off, vent could be connected back to throttle body... All this assumes you are using stock setup, valve covers etc...

If blow by is bad enough you may need to increase the line size into catch can, something like 5/8-3/4" heater hose would work at least till the oil softened the rubber...

Another way to connect would be eliminate PCV valve and run the line from back of intake into can leaving connections on front of engine in place... If you go this route use as large of hose that can be fitted into intake soo there is no restriction to can...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 12:00:19 PM
I was curious about tha. As it has been, I've been getting oil in my throttle body from the valve cover tube.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 09, 2015, 12:57:10 PM
Would venting the catch can introduce unmetered air into the combustion cycle? I know some guys put a filter between the filler neck and the intake to catch the oil in lieu of a catch can.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 03:10:27 PM
I want to try something for the time I'm driving it, a catch can, filter, anything . I'm going to order rings and bearings for the replacement engine. I don't think it needs them, but Not sure. The replacement engine shows all of the crosshatching to be very visible, no lip on the cylinders, engine spins easily.....But, just in case.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 09, 2015, 03:37:56 PM
Vinnie,

O'Reillys carries SpeedPro rings that will fit the factory pistons for the majority of the roller blocks as they are a metric groove. Tear the motor down first and inspect the rings, rod bearings, and crank bearings. If they all look good then go back together and simply replace the oil pump.  This would just keep you from warehousing parts you don't need.

Depending on when you tear it down I can come down and help out. It's always nice to have an extra set of hands and I have a ton of tools.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 06:04:42 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;445793
Would venting the catch can introduce unmetered air into the combustion cycle? I know some guys put a filter between the filler neck and the intake to catch the oil in lieu of a catch can.

Darren

Ummmm yeah a little, but if it's blowing as much oil as Vinnie says it's pushing a lot more out the breather than it's pulling in...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 08:06:06 PM
Darren, in the replacement engine, The block was way too clean when I got it. Not one drop of sludge or anything inside, super clean outside (I didn't even have to clean the block of grease or oil, freeze plugs even look new. All of the crosshatching is there from top to bottom in all 8 cylinders. Everything is tight. The heads (GT40-P) were nice, I sold them off some time ago, didn't need them. I had questioned swapping the rings myself. The pistons are even pretty darned clean. All I have done to the engine was chase the threads and make sure the gasket surfaces were clean. The cam was in great shape when I pulled it as well.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 09, 2015, 08:27:00 PM
If it were me I would tear it down and check things as it would suck to be back into it shortly after installing it.  Worst case scenario it costs you a couple of hours, some assembly lube for the bearings and some fresh engine oil on the cylinder walls.  No matter what I would replace the oil pump as it is an unknown unless you know for sure its been replaced with a quality unit.  Again, this is just me Vinnie and I tend to go a little over board but to have that short block like it is and not check this stuff out would just eat at me.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 09:13:30 PM
oh, I agree. I already have the following on the shelf....

oil pump
oil pickup tube
oil pressure sender
rear main seal
dip stick and tube
NOS oil [pan
one piece oil pan gasket
Cobra intake gaskets
pilot bearing
Rollmaster timing chain (and the guy sent the German chain for free that Ed Curtis recommended)
E-303 cam (if I decided I want it)

I'll use the billet balancer from the current engine, and get a new water pump, rings, bearings, water pump gaskets and head gaskets. I think that ought to do it.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 09, 2015, 09:41:49 PM
I would keep the Ed Curtis cam over running the E303. That's just me. If you don't mind what are the specs on the Ed Curtis cam you're running?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 09, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
0.573 intake      0.557 exhaust lift

215 intake and 223 exhaust duration

Lobe separation is 111

What do you think?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on March 09, 2015, 10:40:35 PM
I'd run it Vinnie, the cam itself isn't the cause of any of your issues, and it's a custom grind, so assuming that the "new" engine will have the same parts in and on as the current, there's no reason to NOT use, I'd think. Plus, if you sold the E cam, there's at least 115, 120, bucks you can put toward something new. Or, keep it for later...

If it were me, and I had your engine combo, I'd definitely run the custom grind over the e cam.

And I agree with Darren, take 'er down to the crank and eyeball it really good...no sense in not doing it...it's only a couple hours wrenching and reassembling.

I wish to hell I'd have torn my block completely down. I'm going to assemble it as soon as my cam gets here, button it up, run it this summer as a daily/fun car, then over the winter, do a full rebuild, and bore it .030 over.
If I can find a better job, I'm going to put money aside for a supercharger...so either way, I want a known good and "as-new" bottom end and slugs.

I'd even be willing to get a stroker kit and go 331 or 347, but if I go that route, I sure as heck won't be able to pressurize the cylinders.

I'm also curious as to what you find is wrong with the old engine when it gets to the point of having it out and apart...just as a rough guess, I'd agree with your thinking that the rings are headed south..
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;445819
0.573 intake      0.557 exhaust lift

215 intake and 223 exhaust duration

Lobe separation is 111

What do you think?


Interesting but I consider the lift a bit much for a daily driver... Guessing it has a little better idle than a TF Stage 1??


Vinnie when you get a chance pull the PCV and just let it hang, also pull the breather tube from throttle body then take it out for a run to see if it still smokes...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 09, 2015, 11:32:18 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;445819
0.573 intake      0.557 exhaust lift

215 intake and 223 exhaust duration

Lobe separation is 111

What do you think?


I like it a lot better than an E cam.

Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445822
Interesting but I consider the lift a bit much for a daily driver... Guessing it has a little better idle than a TF Stage 1??


Vinnie when you get a chance pull the PCV and just let it hang, also pull the breather tube from throttle body then take it out for a run to see if it still smokes...


I've got a .533 lift cam in my Thunderbird. Runs fine.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 10, 2015, 07:51:59 AM
I agree 100% on replacing the rings and bearings. I have NO disagreement there. I think I will run the Ed Curtis cam. Afterall, it was made for my car.

Tom, I'll try that out with the PCV and let you know. Stand by for that info.

I'm going to sell my E-Cam now.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: jcassity on March 10, 2015, 10:22:50 AM
wonder If the lob separation isn't the issue, been reading your thread.
seems your setup takes out some compression ,, fuel not done burning before hits able to the tail pipe?

I agree that lift Is very generous
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 02:56:36 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;445825
I like it a lot better than an E cam.



I've got a .533 lift cam in my Thunderbird. Runs fine.


Yeah but you car isn't a daily driver either... I'm of the thought anything more than .525-ish is giving the valve train a beating so would stay under that figure for a EVERY DAY driver, your cam would be the limit... In a weekend warrior that probably doesn't see 5K a year, it's a great choice...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 10, 2015, 03:36:15 PM
My thoughts on that are if you want to run a decent lift cam then you need to step up the valve train. My Coupe has an Ed Curtis cam and it drives just fine and I beat the hell out of that car. I use Manley stainless steel valves, Isky 8005A springs, and Manley titanium retainers & keepers. You just have to watch the required open/close pressures and min/max install height on the springs versus the gross lift numbers so that you don't float the valves.

I'm not saying you have to have blah blah blah lift and duration to make a motor run because there are all kinds of  variables that determine that and of those one should be the intended use of the vehicle the motor is going in and the intended use.

Cam selection should be the most important part of a motor build as it is the brains of the operation.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 10, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Well, after I get this thing back together, and the Sport is back in fighting shape, I'm going to find a  wagon to drive around. A PT Cruiseror something like that. Can haul a few people, or an engine, and if it gets door dings at the store, I don't care, all the while getting good gas mileage and simple and, cheap.

For now, the E cam is gone now, it will be with it's new owner today. I'm taking the funds and using that towards new rings and bearings. I hope to have them by Fiday, then I can install them this weekend.

I'll keep everybody posted on this.

By th way, Tom.... I'm going to pull the pCV, cover the hole with a cloth and give it hit the road home today. I'll give it a little shakedown and see if it smokes after that. I'll inform you of those results after I get home this evening.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 06:29:30 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445844
Yeah but you car isn't a daily driver either... I'm of the thought anything more than .525-ish is giving the valve train a beating so would stay under that figure for a EVERY DAY driver, your cam would be the limit... In a weekend warrior that probably doesn't see 5K a year, it's a great choice...

I think as long as you have good springs it should be fine. I've always been more concerned with duration vs. lift as far as driveability goes.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;445848
By th way, Tom.... I'm going to pull the pCV, cover the hole with a cloth and give it hit the road home today. I'll give it a little shakedown and see if it smokes after that. I'll inform you of those results after I get home this evening.

The whole theory here is it building pressure in the crankcase blowing oil by the rings which is causing the majority of the smoke, leave it open let it breathe... If it doesn't smoke as badly then the rings are no doubt the problem...

Can also run it a quart to quart and a half low on oil with out any harm, if open breather cuts smoke, a little low on oil should help even more...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: jandmmustangs on March 10, 2015, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: jcassity;445835
wonder If the lob separation isn't the issue, been reading your thread.
seems your setup takes out some compression ,, fuel not done burning before hits able to the tail pipe?

I agree that lift Is very generous


Gotta agree with this. The lsa could be the issue. Efi likes to see around 114 to be happy. Below that it's tune time. Cylinder wash down could have taken then rings.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 10, 2015, 07:36:55 PM
O.K., just got home.

Tom.....I pulled the PCV from the intake and let the tube hang.....Covered the hole with an old cloth, and took off. Not as much smoke on the way home when I nailed the accelerator, but, smoke none the less. Also had some oil on the cloth that covered the hole. The color of the oil on the cloth was a bit odd, and, still have some moisture on the dipstick and a little bit of milky  on the very tip of the dipstick. Sunday, before I added new oil, but after the head gasket swap, I used some motor flush and then drained it, then added new oil and filter. May be some residual  in the engine. Hoping there's not a sealing issue between the intake and heads or heads and block. Won't know til I pull the motor apart eventually.

In the post above this one, the term "cylinder wash down" was used. I've actually never heard that before. Define that and what causes it. I'm guessing too much fuel in the cylinders.

Trying to prevent any issues with the replacement engine.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 10, 2015, 07:59:32 PM
White smoke is usually coolant, gray smoke is usually oil, and black smoke is usually too much fuel.  If you are getting cylinder wash down then the oil in the pan should smell of gasoline.  This is not good as it reduces the lubricating value of the oil in the cylinder(s) it is occurring.  No matter what you have issues with blow by with the amount of air coming out of the oil fill neck.  It will only take one cylinder with bad rings to make it puff smoke seeing how you have an X pipe on the exhaust.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 10, 2015, 08:13:56 PM
It's a lot of gray smoke. I just did the oil smell test with the dipstick....oil is clear, no fuel smell, although, it's hard to explain, but a faint burnt smell. There's some of that milky stuff on the very end of the dipstick. I'm thinking it's residual junk in the engine.

I', going to pull the plugs and check them tomorrow and see if they look different. They were black and smelled of fuel. Since the gasket swap, not sure, but I'll know tomorrow.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2015, 01:15:44 AM
Quote from: jandmmustangs;445873
Gotta agree with this. The lsa could be the issue. Efi likes to see around 114 to be happy. Below that it's tune time. Cylinder wash down could have taken then rings.

That's more of an SD issue than just EFI in general.  Many aftermarket cams are in fact around the 111-112 range and there are plenty of people out there running them without retuning and zero issues.  If it is indeed a cylinder wash issue I think it would be more attributed to an injector/MAF combo not being ideal or perhaps not being able to compensate for whatever reason(mismatched metering tube/air disruption before the MAF/etc). 

Ed asks a LOT of questions on his cam build spec sheet.  If you have all the specs, and you know what you want from the car, the bumpstick he sends you will work.  If he recommends different springs/locks/retainers use what is recommended.  Valve float is a bitch.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 02:08:20 AM
Seemed like Vinnie gad an issue before...running a bit rich or something, no? Or was that someone else?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on March 11, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
Ed asked me a  ton of questions. He said all I needed were shims for the springs. Super thin, but it's what he said I needed, so, they are there now. I ordered rings and bearings last night, then all I need are a new water pump and new timing cover. I might as well swap the water pump too, and the timing cover.....well, I'm getting a new one because I want the engine to look new as well as perform like new.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 03, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Hey Vinnie did you cut the pistons for the 185's, If you did how?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 12, 2015, 02:18:16 PM
Is there an update on this?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 13, 2015, 04:22:19 PM
Update....my replacement shortblock is on the stand. new rings and bearings, new water pump and timing cover, new clutch and flywheel, new seals and gaskets.....I'll install the heads, cam, and intake from the current engine.

Yesterday I started pulling the engine apart in the Sport to ready the car for the swap. I only had an hour, but managed to get the following off....

radiator, hoses, alternator, alternator bracket, balancer, upper and lower intake, distributor, spark plugs, lifters, rockers and pushrods.

The number 7 plug was covered in oil, the rest were tolerable in appearance. As  weather allows this week, I'll try to get the tans and drive shaft pulled, as well as the clutch and bell housing.....and X-Pipe.  May also try to get the cam and heads off as well and on the replacement engine. I'm just doing what I can, when I can. The Sport will be down for the week. Hopefully done this weekend. One day at a time.

Every freakin dollar I get for the car has gone back into fixing it. Too much wasted, so, dropping in my extra engine in the Sport and calling it a day. Once the old engine is out and on the stand, I'll tear into it. the rings are probably , and the bearings probably are too. Saw some silvery stuff in the oil. I'm betting from the bearings.  After the heads are paid for, and things are back in order, I may go ahead and rebuild the  engine into a 347 next year. We'll see.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 16, 2015, 02:39:27 PM
I'm still curios about how you fly cutted the pistons for the 185's?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 16, 2015, 04:00:23 PM
Some have had luck with clearing the stock pistons with the AFR 185's. Only way to know is to clay the motor with a set of solid roller lifters.  You can tack weld an old set of hydraulic roller lifters to convert them for this task and measuring push rod lengths.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 16, 2015, 04:07:58 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;447176
Some have had luck with clearing the stock pistons with the AFR 185's. Only way to know is to clay the motor with a set of solid roller lifters.  You can tack weld an old set of hydraulic roller lifters to convert them for this task and measuring push rod lengths.

Darren

Hey Darren long ago vinnie fly cut the current motor, Thats why I'm asking. I may be off here, but I'm wondering if some grindings ended where they should of not.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 16, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;447168
I'm still curios about how you fly cutted the pistons for the 185's?

I thought Vinnie had TW 170s?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 16, 2015, 08:31:07 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;447181
I thought Vinnie had TW 170s?
Unless you are running more cam than the TF Stage 2, 170s are are fine on pistons without valve reliefs...

I ran the Stage 1 on flat top '86 GT pistons that were .003 out of the hole with no issues... With the nitrous chip I turned it to 6400 a few times...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 17, 2015, 03:26:32 AM
He's running AFR 185's.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Lodemia on April 17, 2015, 06:33:22 AM
I'm pretty sure I've seen this posted here before, but here goes..  You can easily convert hydraulic roller lifters to "mock' solid ones for valvetrain measurement and claying..  Click Herel (http://"http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/273588-how-convert-hydraulic-lifter-solid-lifter-valvetrain-measurement.html") 

I have a pair of lifters that I converted, and I threw some orange paint on them so I can easily tell which ones they are.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 17, 2015, 07:20:24 AM
Well......update.....I had to swap some parts, and the big work starts after work today. The AFR185 heads were too much for my engine. I had to trade them for a set of brand new Trick Flow 170 heads. Sorry Kitz. I went the easy way out.......but love ya.  After work today, the trans, driveshaft and exhaust are coming out, then the engine can come out. Tomorrow, the replacement engine and trans go back in with the new clutch and flywheel, after that, it's a bit easier.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 17, 2015, 07:36:50 AM
Pics and updates this evening....tonight.....later.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 17, 2015, 09:29:15 PM
We got the transmission out, clutch is out, driveshaft is out, headers are off, a/c was depleted and out of the way, two bolts away from yanking the 5.0. HOPEFULLY the new engine will be in tomorrow. I'll post pics and update it tomorrow.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Lodemia on April 17, 2015, 10:44:48 PM
Good luck and keep us posted.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 18, 2015, 08:14:49 AM
Pulling the old engine shortly, but due to  weather, the replacement won't go in til next Saturday. That's the way it goes. In the mean time, I'll have everything else ready to go. Pics later.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 18, 2015, 10:41:46 PM
Today's update....pulled the engine this morning. Yanked the heads and cam from it, installed them in/on the replacement engine, got most everything buttoned up, installed the new block plate, clutch and flywheel, then the trans, got it all back in the Bird, now, waiting to hook up the little bits....injectors, harness, ground wires, upper intake, drive shaft, etc. The little stuff. The major drivetrain stuff is in place. One step (well, a lot of steps) closer.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11136752_10206719092442364_3525261983706976100_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11136752_10206719092442364_3525261983706976100_n.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11064597_10206719092762372_5121320604582089357_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11064597_10206719092762372_5121320604582089357_n.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/10690158_10206719100602568_2560917552828448540_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/10690158_10206719100602568_2560917552828448540_n.jpg.html)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 18, 2015, 10:43:02 PM
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11133675_10206719102522616_1751105845284617670_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11133675_10206719102522616_1751105845284617670_n.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11174910_10206719104722671_2515381411349284222_n_1.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11174910_10206719104722671_2515381411349284222_n_1.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11149427_10206719107082730_2170547582878923568_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11149427_10206719107082730_2170547582878923568_n.jpg.html)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 18, 2015, 10:44:10 PM
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11118836_10206719110722821_1304506851602785047_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11118836_10206719110722821_1304506851602785047_n.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11146309_10206719120523066_760505676496156590_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11146309_10206719120523066_760505676496156590_n.jpg.html)

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11168380_10206719115682945_2714776509773443204_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11168380_10206719115682945_2714776509773443204_n.jpg.html)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 19, 2015, 12:10:22 PM
What led you to believe the 185's were too big?  Was this a fitment issue or flow?

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 19, 2015, 12:12:02 PM
Looking pretty, Was it mentioned that you dumped the 185's, I may have missed it. Hopefully they found a good home.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 19, 2015, 01:06:32 PM
They did Kitz. I hated to do it, but had to. Today, I'm stepping away and just relaxing all day. I need a break. I ordered ne O2 sensors for the X_pipe last night. If all goes well, I'll be done next weekend. Maybe this week depending on my free time after work each day.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: STANG8U on April 19, 2015, 02:00:08 PM
Looking good man
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 19, 2015, 08:22:19 PM
Looking good. Hopefully this solves the smoking issue :).
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 19, 2015, 08:27:20 PM
It freakin' better !!! There was puddled oil in 4 cylinders. No bueno.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on April 19, 2015, 09:38:07 PM
Are you gonna put on new valve seals, or were they new when you put those heads on?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 20, 2015, 07:36:10 AM
The heads aren't even a year old.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 20, 2015, 08:35:40 PM
I used a Roll Master timing set and the German made chain suggested by Ed Curtis. Holy . I've never seen a timing chain that tight. Awesome,, heavy, and high quality. The Cloyes timing set can't even compare to the Roll Master with the German chain.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 20, 2015, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;447333
I used a Roll Master timing set and the German made chain suggested by Ed Curtis. Holy . I've never seen a timing chain that tight. Awesome,, heavy, and high quality. The Cloyes timing set can't even compare to the Roll Master with the German chain.

Good to know. I'll have to pick one up if/when I ever do a cam swap.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 21, 2015, 10:27:49 AM
There is virtually no play in that chain.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 21, 2015, 03:00:05 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;447347
There is virtually no play in that chain.

Probably makes the FRPP chain in my Thunderbird look like .
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2015, 07:35:26 AM
The chain I removed had less than 800 miles on it (from the old engine), and it had a bit more play than I would care to see. Like I said, I have never seen one like this before.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on April 22, 2015, 08:37:44 AM
A really tight chain wouldn't be a bad thing would it?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 22, 2015, 09:11:51 AM
Installation instructions here:

http://www.romacusa.com/tech.html

I did not see you list a part number or I would have drilled down a little further so see if the typical 1/4" or so of movement is their rule of thumb as well.  In all honesty just call or email Ed at FTI and ask him what is acceptable.  More than likely they go on super tight so that after break in they will have just a little slack in them.

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 23, 2015, 11:09:38 AM
I'll send Ed a message this evening. I'm going to finish it all up Saturday if everything goes my way. New O2 sensors are coming today. SO, All I gotta do is get the parts installed, add some water to the radiator, twist the key. Timing and idle reset are on that list as well.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2015, 11:16:45 AM
Tomorrow list of things to do.....

-install driveshaft
-new X-Pipe with O2 sensors
-connect wire to low oil level sender on the side of the oil pan
-alternator and bracket
-crank and water pump pulleys
-connect fan to radiator
-install radiator
-upper intake
-injectors
-connect harnesses
-CAI
-water in radiator
-connect battery
-clutch cable

Then it should be about ready to start, time and see what happens.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 24, 2015, 04:37:44 PM
Did Ed get back with you?

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2015, 04:39:14 PM
Not yet. Hopefully soon. I'll report his opinions.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2015, 11:30:14 PM
I talked to Ed. He kept his answer simple. He stated that it was the ONLY chain he uses on performance engine. I'm cool with that. LOL.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2015, 11:35:17 PM
UPDATE.........

Everything is together. The new X-Pipe didn't fit my car. A little short on the end for my current exhaust. I had to notch the X-Pipe s to fit my headers. No big deal, but the shortness (about 1 inch too short) so, it's not going on the car. I reinstalled the X-Pipe I have had for years. No big deal.

Had to replace my steering pump. Mine sprang a leak at some point during all of this ordeal. Thank goodness I have the ol' lifetime warranty. Traded it out, good to go.

Once everything seems like it was in place, and I looked over everything again....and again....and again...I started the car. Started right up. Set the timing at 16 degrees, adjusted the clutch cable so I could actually shift, and drove for two miles. Then two miles home. Seems tight, responsive. I'll take the car out tomorrow morning for a cleaning, after I check the fluids, and then I'll go from there. I'll report in as soon as I get home.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 26, 2015, 08:03:47 PM
So no smoke? Awesome :).
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Beau on April 26, 2015, 10:59:40 PM
And have your wife film a quick video clip for us? :D

Of the car...lest my intentions be thought of in the wrong light!
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 27, 2015, 07:37:41 AM
Not a bit of smoke that I can see. I haven't had any time to get it out and really drive it yet. I put about 8 miles on it over the last two days, never able to get over 45 miles per hour. LOL.

I'll get a video as soon as the weather clears up. Raining again.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 28, 2015, 05:25:19 PM
I drove it a bit longer today. The water in the engine got hot and was to the point of overheating. Other than that, it's running strong and feels great. I'm going to swap the thermostat and see what happens. I installd the head gaskets correctly. I'll post the results of the new thermostat when I get the work done and drive it again.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 28, 2015, 08:08:43 PM
I just finished swapping the thermostat. Hopefully it'll help. I'll test drive it tomorrow. Holy .
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 29, 2015, 09:33:10 AM
Although my trip to work is very short, the needle on the temp gauge didn't move, SO, I'm hoping the replacement thermostat di the job. I'll know more after work.

Also, the BBK filter (inner fender) for my CAI somehow has the neck broke off completely. I went to Autozone to get a new filter, all they had was the Spectre brand. Not a fan of that stuff, but, I got one because I need a filter. It fit, but my rpms at idle went up 500. I also ordered a new BBK filter as well. I still haven't done the base idle reset, so, I may drop the idle down and go from there after work as well. Getting there slowly but surely.

That is today's update..........so far.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 29, 2015, 03:12:46 PM
Update....I went out at lunch today, and was goingto start the car....no fan. SO, I think the fan is having an issue. I'll check the wiring after work and should be good to go. Stay tuned for further updates.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 29, 2015, 03:33:59 PM
Well no fan will make the car run hot :hick:.

As far as the idle going up 500rpm sounds like a vacuum leak. Maybe the filter or intake plumbing is loose?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 29, 2015, 03:42:06 PM
Which fan do you have Vinnie?

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 29, 2015, 03:58:51 PM
Replacement motors for the Taurus and Mark VIII fans are available. Keeps the original housing (in my case this is good as they are modified) and original fan blade assembly. I drilled the rivits and used stainless bolts, flat washers, and locking nuts to install the new motors in my Mark VIII fans.

http://www.rockauto.com/m/mobilecatalog.php?carcode=1138890&parttype=2181&a=www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B1995%2BFORD%2BTAURUS%2B3.8L%2BV6%2BCooling%2BSystem%2BRadiator%2BFan%2BAssembly&blanktemplate=true

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 29, 2015, 06:36:54 PM
Hopefully my fan wiring just needs a little love. I'll know shortly. Getting ready to head out there in about 5 minutes.  Update right after that.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 29, 2015, 08:02:18 PM
Update....bad wire on the fan....after a 20 minute test drive, all seems well.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 30, 2015, 12:28:41 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;447561
Update....bad wire on the fan....after a 20 minute test drive, all seems well.

Awesome! No more smoke and it runs great :). Now go enjoy it!.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 30, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
I'm planning on it !!!

As far as the higher rpms...it went up when the filter was changed. Wonder if the Spectre filter is just flowing more air......I have a BBK filter coming (like the one that came with the CAI), and I'm going to install it and see if it makes a difference before I change anything.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 30, 2015, 04:17:27 PM
I still think it's a vacuum leak on the intake tubing. I switched from a stock airbox with a panel K&N to a conical K&N in a March Ram Air box. The idle didn't change even though the conical flows more air.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on April 30, 2015, 08:09:48 PM
I'll be pulling the upper to paint and polish this weekend. I'll check it all out. I appreciate you guys.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 02, 2015, 04:03:45 AM
Big news,Vinnie is pulling a intake!!lol. Good to hear it's running fine.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on May 02, 2015, 08:56:16 AM
HEY!!!! Just the upper intake to paint and polish. It's going back on, and I'm NOT going to another intake !!!! LOL. I'm down to no funds and starting to do what I can for free....paint, polish, straighten some wires,etc. I need to either drop the timing a wee bit, or raise it a wee bit. Not sure. it's at 16 degrees right now, and I got a pop in the throttle body. Not much, just a little bit.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Aerocoupe on May 02, 2015, 09:10:39 AM
When do you get the TB pop?

Darren
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on May 02, 2015, 09:56:19 AM
If I remember correctly it was when I was shifting into third gear or in third.. I will see if I can replicate it today when I'm done with the intake painting and polishing and my core support filler panel is painted. It was minor.....but it was there.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on May 02, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
I stripped it, sanded it, painted and polished. Now, all I gotta do is fab an intake plate and polish it, and apply the new emblem......

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/11151035_10206829967134162_7271748840549000730_n.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/Vinnietbird/media/11151035_10206829967134162_7271748840549000730_n.jpg.html)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on July 22, 2015, 09:50:24 AM
Update.....Sorry for slacking....I'm going to have a friend do a short video of the car this Saturday Now that the injector harness has been swapped and it has the ground wire (mine didn't) it helped a LOT, then, the ECM relay was heavily corroded inside, I swapped that and the plug, running great, running strong. I'm toying with the timing now. I was wondering....if the ground wire on the harness was missing, and the relay was corroded, and I was trying to get the timing right, how could I trust that it was correct if the other stuff was bad, so, checking it out. I started at 16 degrees. Dropped it to 14 degrees, and that wasn't so great. I bumped it to 18, and seems pretty good. I'll drive it home and see if I still feel the same.. If not, back to 16. No other issues that I have seen..........finally. It's nice to enjoy the car and not HAVE to work on it every single weekend. I'll be cleaning and doing some mild detailing. Kitz has a few bucks coming to him as well.

The car couldn't have happened without Kitz and Jerry. I also thank you guys who chime in regularly with advice and try to help when you can on information. Best forum with the best members on the interweb. We are lacking in douchebags, and that's a good thing.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 22, 2015, 02:26:35 PM
Glad it's running great for ya :)

So when are you switching intakes again? ;)
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on July 22, 2015, 05:21:54 PM
Intake swapping? That's rediculous. BUT.........I will probably be changing out the upper soon. I found that one of the intake plate mounting holes near the throttle body  has been drilled out. Just a tiny bit. I can drill the other out to match, then tap them both with  new threads. No big deal, and I found another GT-40 tubular intake set for.....well....let's just say the guy had NO IDEA what the intake was. he thought it was just an old Fox Body Stang intake, and you know what those factory py intakes sell for.... so, I grabbed it. I'll paint and polish it, put it on my car, then sell the one I have now with the lower, make some cash, send some to Kitz and be happy. LOL.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 22, 2015, 05:59:54 PM
So half an intake swap then?
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: Haystack on July 22, 2015, 06:29:41 PM
Still 35 more intake swaps then I've done this year...
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on July 22, 2015, 07:54:44 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;449961
So half an intake swap then?

Sure....if that's how you want to look at it. LOL.
Title: Thick gray/blueish smoke....New pics
Post by: vinnietbird on July 22, 2015, 07:56:20 PM
Quote from: Haystack;449962
Still 35 more intake swaps then I've done this year...

I resemble that remark !!! LOL.

I'm done with full intake swaps. I have the Tmoss ported lower, and it stays put. The cam was made for the engine based on a ported GT-40 intake and all else the car has, and is. SO, I'm not changing any of that.