Hello everyone,
I am in the process of rescuing a 1988 3.8L cougar from the dead. I have replaced suspension, brakes, brake lines, fuel pump holder, wires, plugs, rotor, distributor cap and some other minor things. Car seems to be running good.
However, after I take it on a 20-30 minute drive and then shut it off, I am intermittently unable to start it. If I wait 10-15 minutes OR try the next morning, it will start no problem. It only ever seems to intermittently not start after driving and it doesnt happen all the time. It is at the point where I do not want to shut the car off when I go out. Was hoping it would work itself out but it has been going on for a few weeks now.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Kind Regards.
Battery was also changed. Forgot to mention that the car will turn over fine but just not start.
Does it crank and not start?? Or does it not crank need more info!!
Hi Tom - It will crank but just not start.
If I wait 10-15 minutes and then crank it again, it will start no problem. Runs very smooth once started.
Sound like tfi module to me.....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=owIpVKK9KsHuoATDoYDYDA&url=http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,588.0.html&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&usg=AFQjCNG82xHeqRH5DWa1m_wj3YYx4ZQdEg&sig2=-f9sP133jUFUDjjZ2a9kMQ
FOllow every step here and have it done and fixed in half an hour
TFI PIP replace them both and go from there. Good luck
Tom/jay - my TFI is located near the radiator. I have read the thread on the TFI problems and it seems the TFI in that location rarely has problems? Can it still have problems?
Haystack - that link has given me a lot to work through. Thanks.
in 1988 ford did not put the TFI (ignition) module anywhere but directly on the distributor.
The electronic version of points is down inside the distributor. both the TFI or the stator/pip could be the problem.
Does your side profile of your car have a slopped backwards window or is your car sorta "boxy" looking.
if your saying its an 88 but its actually an 89, then the location of the TFI makes sense.
If your car is actually an 88 then you are dealing with someone else's work to relocate the TFI.
It may or may not be done properly,, who knows.
once upon a long time ago, my ECT sensor, engine coolant temp sensor finally ended up being the reason why I was not able to start after the car got hot and it was an intermittent situation as you described.
The 1988 3.8L in "your design" was a one year deal only.. ford changed body and harness designs in 89.
your engine is not six separate injectors pulsing individually rather its 3 fire off then the other side of the motor three injectors fire off... similar to CFI setups of 87 and down 3.8L engines. You are also an internal balance motor which is a direct swap with the 4.2L crank/rods & pistons.. just fyi
in my diy link below,, pull your codes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, use a paperclip if you want but codes will tell you whats been happening to the car over the last 40 warm up cycles it has experienced.
Incorrect...... Source: http://www.coolcats.net/help/tfi.html
I've personally seen a few mounted as shown in the picture in the link as well.
It's an electrical component, so yes. I would imagine the failure rates on these remote mounted units is lower than the distributor mount setup though.
Could the ignition switch issue also cause this problem? Another probability is the starter is tired and when it gets heat soaked it gets finicky as to whether or not it will start. Moreover, the battery cables could also be the culprit.
Darren
But see he said itll crank but it wont start. So you should rule out battery cables. Heat soaked starter? Possible. But i think starters are going going gone. No real indication of when theyre about to go bad.
Just start it up, run it around the neighborhood until it's warmed up, then go home. Once the problem is exhibiting itself in your garage/driveway it's easier to fix. Figure out if you have spark and/or fuel. I bet one or the other is missing.
When I have a problem like that, I have a neon spark tester that I throw in the glove box. When it's acting up, I jump out and put it on. Then you can see if you have spark right when it's acting up.
That is how you shoot this issue. Have it conk out then check for spark and fuel one is missing.
Which is why I posted a link that shows how to tell EXACTLY which one it is. As well as which sensor/component that failed. My first time following that write up, I was done in less then 10 mins worth of trouble shooting and on my way to the parts store for the only thing that needed to be replaced.
y idiot can spray starting fluid and say yeah, its missing spark. Very few can tell you why.
Haystack - thanks for the link. I should have some time next week to troubleshoot and hopefully find out the problem.
J - it looks to me like the tfi is on the radiator and it is an 88.
Thanks for all the comments. At least I have direction to head in. Battery is new and cables seem fine.
good deal, as a result of this thread, I did not find the tfi up on the rad but I did score a few of the heat sync's in the process..... good luck
There is no problem with the fuel so I am guessing it might be the TFI. It is definitely in the no spark category. My neighbour who is pretty good with cars is also baffled with the problem.
People seem to recommend replacing the TFI/ppi. Is this referring to ignition control module and distributor pick up coil that I see on rock auto? Is there a better/cheaper place to get these parts.
Thanks.
Read:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/products/86-93-Mustang-Distributor-Install
Darren
Interesting read. Mine has never ever stalled while driving and I have taken it on a several hour run. Seems like all the people with the TFI problems have experienced stalls.
I guess i need to spend more time troubleshooting or just be happy never shutting the car off while I am out. Or replace both the TFI and distributor.....
Mine did not stall when it went bad. This happened to me twice. Second time was an intermittent fuel pump issue. Replaced the TFI for the second time, then replaced the FP relay and neither fixed it. Replaced the FP and problem solved. Not saying this is your issue just sharing what fixed mine.
Darren
Which is why I posted a link THAT TELLS YOU HOW to trouble shoot the problem.grab a volt meter. Test light, a 18 pack and invite a few friends over for some wrenching. Even working slow it shouldnt take more then an hour to do every step.
Reading what Joel wrote over on sbftech would keep a guy from spending a lot of time and $$$. Wish I would have known about it when my coupe had all of its issues many a moon ago.
Darren
Basically you need to see if you lost spark or have no fuel. Otherwise it is a shoot. So when it happens be prepared to shoot the trouble. Your ears. Key the car does the pump run?? Use a screwdriver small Phillips to push in the schrader valve on the rail. Fuel comes out with some pressure?? Then use the same screwdriver to check spark. If it is not there replace Both The TFI and the PIP. Been doing this for years and it is cheap insurance. The failure rate of the PIP and TFI is very high. NOPE. But it all depends on the tune. Bad tune bang the TFI goes south!! Good tune it can be trouble free for many many years. Most TFI modules go south from heat??? NO most go bad from a bad tune or components. But it is always best to remote mount it with a giant heat sync. Good luck
paper clip and pulling codes first step....
these cars are pretty hard to break but when they do we get kind of spoiled and forget to do the basics.
anywhoooo
one thing I would consider checking even with a cold motor is at night, use a spare spark plug and ground the threads.
have a buddy crank and look at the spark,, if its not blue/white... it points to the TFI on your radiator or the pick up module inside the dizzy... but your codes will tell you that as well.
What codes would that BE> JAY
I have never seen a code 14 in my life with a bad PIP.
And there is no codes for no spark as far as i know. And none for fuel delivery.
And none for a bad TFI. Module
Have a great day
some sorta code should be triggered when the hard fail occurs....
For a hard fail where the car continues to run yes, but as Tom said not in those instances. I've been through enough TFI modules to confirm this in quite a few different Ford products. Funny thing is I've NEVER had a PIP go bad..... YET...... (I think I just jinxed myself :p )