We were on a good will mission to help one of our Boy Scoutmasters move this morning. I took my son Evan and Scout (the dog) for the adventure. We are taking to as many pet friendly places as we can so he can get used to the car, and not negatively associate it with only vet visits or the groomer. We arrived at the house, and on leash of course i put the leash on a fence post in the front where 20 of us were all busy loading and moving boxes etc. Evan took a break, sat down with Scout on his lap, still on leash and attached to the fence. Moments later a neighbors Pit Bull charged out of nowhere and jumped all over them both. Two adult leaders nearby ran over after my son was screaming for help and pulled the Pit off. It was not a vicious attack, but the shear weight and strength of that dog cut my son up pretty good, and Scout had to have a emergency visit to the vet. He was limping on his front left foot, and yelping if you lifted him. (It was pathetic) They are both going to be fine.
Here is where the story gets disgusting. The Pit Bull owner, was the biggest asshole ever made. (Sorry for the expletive, no other word fit) Here is what went down:
She comes out and first thing i tell her is, that i want to call a cop and have a incident report made out. She got very concerned about that. Not one word of concern for my son or the dog. She then says to me, so your going to sue me? I was mortified. How about, OMG are your child and dog ok? Im so sorry, what can i do? This never happens, it was an accident......you get the idea.
She vanishes back in the house. Cops come, take the info, make a report, and i asked them to remain while i went back over to the house. I told her i don't know if either of them were bitten, i need the rabies and shot info ASAP, as in right now. She stalls me, and then cops an attitude and says i don't know where the papers are. I said whats your vets name/number? I don't have one, he is a shelter rescue. Call the rescue, they have the records, she gets them on the phone, and the dogs rabies tag expired 4/27. The shelter vet said it was ok, and that the vaccination was still good, it was more of a legal issue for the owner. At this point i was about to freak out. Then i regrouped and tried to be nice. I said to her, i need to rush the dog the emergency vet right now, why don't we begin with you paying the bill and start off on the right foot. Her reply was, i have no money and how do i know your 6 month old puppy did not have a limp already. She turned around, walked away and went back into her house. The police officer and i just looked at each other dumbfounded. I have no idea if she is the homeowner or a renter. I will not let this go. My son Evan is 12 and has autism, and i have no idea what this event will have done to him emotionally for months. He was the hero in this, he protected his puppy, and called for help. Brave is not even the word for him. I would have been terrified if 125 pound Pit Bull was on top of me and my 12 pound puppy.
I have no issue with Pit Bulls or any large breed. If you live in a 400 acre ranch in Wyoming thats one thing, when you live in suburbia, you better make sure that your dog is fenced, leashed or be drippingly apologetic if the dog accidentally got out and caused a situation like this. They are very few bad dogs, there is animal abuse and it takes on many forms. These people do not deserve a dog, and furthermore i am appalled that this is only a matter for civil court. How many other people did she talk out of calling the police? Dogs like this can kill, and not even viciously mean to do so. Almost every Pit Bull that i have ever met from a responsible owner, was a well disciplined and sweet dog. I hate when any breed is singled out and persecuted.
Rant over, thanks for listening.
David the only thing i can say is hope you family and dog is OK. We have issues like this in our town with these dogs and i hate them. I know people say it is not the breed it is the owner that makes the dog aggressive but that is BS as those dogs are nuts powerful and can inflict serious damage to people and pets. They really should be strictly controlled and if i were you contact a good lawyer and sue the out of that lady. She clearly is nuttier than that dog. Hope everyone is ok as those dogs can inflict serious damage to a person. I really and truly believe the owners of those dogs have superiority issues and they think owning a dog like that is a status symbol. What a bad thing to happen to a young person. Hope he is not shook up over this. God Bless and tell you son he is the BEST.
Here is the headlines from our local paper from last week
Police Shoot Pit Bulls Attacking 11 Year Old Boy
Pit Bulls Savage 67 Year Old Woman Out For A Bike Ride
Ashton Kutcher And Baby Mama Involved In Vicious Pit Bull Attack On Their Dog
Pit Bulls Kill 4 Year Old, Wound Pregnant Mother
Thanks for the kind thoughts Tom.
God, what a BITCH!! I agree, I'd definitely seek legal action. BTW, my name is Evan too :-)
I'd sue her into oblivion just for being an ignorant pig. And I'd have animal control seize that dog so it can be properly tested if she refuses to be upfront. Chances are the dog does not have rabies, but that's juts it: chance. Better the dog suffer than the boy. Not saying the dog should be destroyed, but it should clearly be removed from the current owners and never returned.
Not trying to take away from the seriousness of this, but this has Judge Judy written all over it. She'd eat that pitbull for breakfast...
I can have the dog seized right now, he is out of compliance for his rabies vac. If i thought this was a vicious attack i would make the call. I am going to call the owner and tell her she has til tomorrow at sundown to call me with the vac. update or i am calling the town to pick him up. I tried to be nice, it was to no avail. Lawyer call on Tuesday.
Sorry to hear what happened to you.
People moved in two doors down from me, and they have two huge mean pitbulls. They walk them, if that's what you can call it, the dogs drag the owner down the street. One day something is going to get those dogs' attention and the owner will be powerless to stop them. I wish there was something I could do, but I would be the one who ends up looking like the a-hole. It's sad, there's nothing that can be done if you only -think- a dog might do something. They keep them fenced, and they go nuts if anybody walks by. I don't mean just barking, NUTS. They bite each other they are so full of rage! I don't know why anybody would want to own such a ball of hatred. This is a nice quiet town, and people think they need vicious guard dogs. It's ridiculous how scared everybody is... Sorry for my rant, irresponsible dog owners are a major pet peeve of mine.
Dave, call me. You know I have first hand experience with a similar situation which I'll not divulge online. I hope Evan and Scout are OK.
I am very sorry to read this, David. I truly hope both of them are OK. I don't have anything against Pit Bulls as a breed, either. But my wife is a dog groomer and there is a reason she won't do Pits or Chows. Even if they are generally well mannered you never really know if they might snap. I DO have a major problem with py owners, though. I hope you get a positive resolution to this.
When ever your around your son, praise him for his heroism. Its pretty traumatic being pounced on by one of those balls of muscle. Im 33 and don't want to fight a pit, let alone a kid. Thank god your son is ok, and let the LAW deal with that bitch of a lady.
Matt, there is a section in "Boy's Life" magazine called Scouts in Action. I am submitting my son's story for entry, and possibly a bravery medal. He saved his dogs life.
Thanks to everyone for the words of support and concern. We're all ok, just shaken up a bit, and perplexed at how a persons selfish nature was more important than the welfare of my child. I love animals, dogs in particular, and can understand the love and joy they can bring to the others. That being said, there are just some breeds that are not worth the trouble and risk of ownership, other than some selfish need on the part of the owners. When you think of what occurred here in a different context, imagine it this way:
If my 4 year old Scarlett came over and kicked you in the knee, you would laugh it off, say how rude she was, and her parents need to teach her manners. If a grown adult male did the same behavior, you would call a cop on them, and probably visit the hospital too. Its exactly the same thing here. Its just a breed that can't get out of its own way. I have met friendly and sweet Pits that have knocked me to the ground kissing me and wagging tails, and i am a 6ft tall 190 pound adult male. There is just no good to be had here, and in opinion the risk factors are not worth the ownership. I would kill myself if my dog mauled and disfigured or killed a child or adult. What kind of person just has to own a dangerous dog? Have a look at the national bite/injury stats, they are self explanatory.
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/...breed+2012.pdf
well, not sure whats going on up your way but down here, when this happens and just like when i lived in KY, the owner would simply put hte dog down right there.
She should have collected her dog first to her back yard then you should have heard one pop from her gun.
some breeds of dogs are consistently doing this.
sorry about your situation she dragged you into and she may be right and have no monitary value for a law suit.
I really dont know the politics of suburban living because i knew at an early age it did not suit the freedoms i knew i needed like where i grew up. I have heard about situations like this and other situations where cramming too many people in one spot causing conflicts. To be honest, i had a timber wolf / shepard mix and one of his instinctive characteristics was when he was excited and happy, he would make high pitched yelps. on more than one occassion when someone he loved seeing showed up to our house, the excited noises he made would trigger me to watch him close,, and part 2 is the dog did "love nips". The wolf breed does this nipping and yelping as forms of communications and i could prevent it by stepping in ,, calm the Fing dog down and all was well.
in this case you just simply have a person who has never had to be nice to people in order to insure her survival, therefore she can be a an ass all her life and get away with it. Most people have never learned the hard way how to build relationships because of all the rules that help them not need thier neighbors or each other.
i have to wonder what the reaction would have been if it were me and you saw me take the dog away only a minute later hearing me put the dog down.
there is nothing other than this to do. dogs get a few chances in life to show they are not wreckless with thier dna, and this would have been the instant i put him down.,, then probably sued anyway for discharging a weapon in the neighborhood. Id rather get sued for that than to have a dog keep on dong this.
this ass of a person is likely just another drain on society.
It almost always ends up in death of the dog to do a rabies test....they have to sample the dog's brain matter for it...
Not that I disagree, accidents of this type are an oxymoron...it's a behavior issue with dogs, or if the bitch owner can't control the dog she needs to have it put down. I'm a dog lover, but if any of mine attack or god forbid kill another dog, let alone a kid, I'll pull the shaging trigger myself. For that matter, I have before, so I feel I've a little room to criticize on this. Yes, that dog left ME scarred, both mentally and physically.
Like I said, I love dogs, and have had several Pit Bulls over the years, but I agree. If the animal is vicious, or barks at people all the time menacingly, it's a ed time bomb.
I tell you what, I carry a handgun pretty much everywhere, had that been MY kid, and MY dog being attacked, well, there would have been gun shots and that dog would have been dead. In Missouri, it wouldn't even go to court, provided the cirspoogestances were as in David's incident. With that said, I hope everything gets resolved to 101%, and the gal hopefully learns to be more responsible.
One more little word; if that dog was a rescue, they or whoever didn't do a very ed good job of making sure he/she was socially acceptable with kids and other dogs, or else it's overly protective and unsecured.
When I had my last two Bullies, I had to keep the male on a 5/16" aircraft cable whenever he was outside, or he'd simply chase everything that moved. Not maliciously, just to play, but I wasn't going to give him a chance to possibly harm someone. To his credit, the only thing he ever ruined was a 4 wheeler tire when I was riding, and I let him go with me.
I had another one, barely a 7 month pup, she ate her way through a 5' chain link enclosure and killed 2 other dogs that were bigger than she was. Attacked me on sight when got to the scene. I had no choice to shoot her, my then wife was right behind me and would have been no match for the dog.
And a lot of it is how the dogs are raised. Your average meth head, worthless piece of shiznit who has 3 Pits tied up in the back yard with no water and shade..well, his dogs will probably bite someone....
My last Pit Bull was put to sleep last Summer, on 9/11 due to cancer. She was a good 'un. Right up to the day I took her to the vet, she was full of life and love for all of us, especially the kids. She'd always go to them and lay down so they could rub her belly.
She was my baby, I had her from the time she was 7 weeks. But, not all dogs are like that, some are made to be mean, fearful, and territorial. The people that do this to them should be "knee-capped", if you know what I mean.
MY83T, how is your boy doing? Your Pup??
As for the where I live where you live matter. I live a bit upstate from the OP. In my neighbor hood you can here the boys shooting 22's on saturday's during the summer. And here deer hunters in the fall. I wouldn't have hesitated to put a .38 SP in a pit attacking my daughter, but in untill im truly in MY83T shoes who knows how Id react. When your kids being attacked who knows how rational you'd think. Id probably gone over and attacked the pit, then get mauled myself. But Id rather it maul me than my lil girl. I just hope for MY83T's sons sake that the attack doesn't damage his psyche too much. Keep building him up so he goes away from this horrible episode with a positive, he saved his pup. Don't let him dwell on the negatives, a massive piece of muscle attacking. Don't let him fear big dogs, but know that he Knows how to defend him self and his puppy.
Matt, and everyone else, thanks for the concern, support and comments. Here is the update on how everyone is doing.
Evan is doing fine, and very proud of himself for protecting scout. He was ultra responsible today, taking him for his walks on leash, and cleaning up after him, feeding and brushing him. He is very devoted.
Scout is not limping any longer, he is responding well to the anti inflammatory meds (prednisone) and appears to be on the mend. He is a little crabby and feisty on the meds.
I finally spoke with the wife (the woman from the day of the incident) Her idiotic 1st question to me was, "How is my dog doing?" I asked her a few questions about her name, could barely get a straight answer, and her story was the dog is her ex-husbands, and was just there visiting for the day. I could barely take the bullshiznit anymore, and said i need to figure out what i am going to do here. I get a call 5 minutes later from her soon to be ex-husband. Night and day difference. He was sincere, apologetic, and did not know what to do for me 1st. I explained that my son had some scratches, and the issue is he has autism and some emotional issues, and that i fear the long term damage emotionally. He offered without condition to pay the vet bill, and out of pocket for my son. He wanted to take him someplace to buy him something special to make it up to him. He offered to have him meet the dog, who is basically a nonviolent galoot, and was just very excited and enthusiastic. I do not believe this was a violent attack, and had it been this would have turned out far differently. He agreed that the fault was his and not the dog, and i said the rabies vac being out of date was totally unacceptable no matter what i decide to do. Its a step in the correct direction, and he apologized profusely for the lies and stonewalling from his soon to be ex. We shall see if he makes good on his promises, and if he plays games i will sue him til he bleeds. Any medium to small dog that behaved in the same way, we would shrug it off, but because of the sheer brute size and power of this animal, a fairly innocent greeting turned into something far more scary and dangerous. This is a dangerous breed issue, and a responsible ownership issue, and it really needs to be addressed on a national level and there needs to be further debate. Here is a quote from a friend of mine regarding what he thinks needs to be done:
"I think the best solution the government should come up with a law requiring all owners to have a mandatory liability insurance policy for All dogs. Then let the insurance companies decide the rates. You own a shiznitzu it's something like $5 a year. Own a pit bull and it should be $5k plus per year. Then let the dog owner argue with the insurance companies. No different than driving different model cars."
I agree with there being more stringent requirements as to dog breeds, however, BSLs (breed specific laws) simply do not work for everyone. The average meth head down the street, yeah, no way in hell will he obey a "piddly-ass" law (not that I am belittling such laws, but they're basically an appeasp00get, and not a viable solution.)
My opinion: the fines for having a bigger dog that attacks people and/or other animals, especially smaller animals and kids should have to pay a very large fine for the first offense. Second offense the dog is removed and put down. Third time, their ass gets jail time.
I've had Pits, Labs, Beagles, a few various smaller breed dogs, and now Boxers. I've had one mean big dog, and 3 mean little dogs. None were mistreated. Some dogs do become just plain mean for whatever reason, and some are simply made to be that way. Then there's the kind of dog that for whatever reason just suddenly lashes out, and who can say what exactly causes it. Maybe the soon-to-be-splitsville couple were fighting, throwing shiznit at one another and the dog freaked and acted defensively? Who knows, and it's too late for that now. The guy (hopefully) should keep his eyes on his pooch for awhile and make sure it was a situational thing and not something lurking just below the surface, only to happen again.
BTW, was it a younger dog, or an older hound, like 3 years or older? Just trying to compare it with other events I've seen before....
Good to hear your wee ones are doing better, that's the main thing.
these were some of the deeper scratches inflicted......
Happy to hear your son and his dog are ok. It's really moving to hear about that kind of heroism. I hope I'm capable of that kind of bravery if/when it's needed of me. Just wished the pit HAD been rescued instead of sentenced.
Not quite sure of your comments meaning, but the Pit was a rescue dog adopted a year ago. The dog in this case is not really the culprit, as much as he was the cause of the physical part of the situation, this is a poster child case of how not to handle your responsibility for your dog.
No offense intended. I agree the dog wasn't the culprit. They shouldn't have let the dog go home with that woman. That's what I meant by being sentenced. We all know pitbulls have special needs. More screening is warranted.
David, sorry to see what happened to your son and dog. Glad they're doing ok. How's your son handling everything??
I took no offense at all, just was trying to get your meaning, which i do now. Excellent point.
Thanks for the concern Jon.....Evan is ok, and really is dealing with this like a champ. Scout is all healed up and feisty as usual.
the last thing we need is someone to put a tax / insurance value on a dog which will / could lead to total breed extinction.
when people choose to live in tight quarters and animals are around, conflicts will happen.
forgive me please but the thread title conflicts your writtings. the headline says one thing but the content says another.
not being a dick, just looking at the info you gave.
i was under the impression there was an attack even though now i see there was not.
if it was a heavy dog greeting, that happens to about every kid out there when they are still small.
dogs are fast and in the blink of an eye strange things happen like this.
i disagree with the penalties you quoted because it just gives everyone instant paydays to seek out and exploit.
while your doing your checking, find out where your "TAX" money goes for property taxes If ny does what wv does.
We pay a dog tax every year per dog to cover any damages to "farmers animals" if the event occures. nothing of the money goes to this sort of cause though.
we pay 4$ per dog per year.
im just kinda disturbed by the idea that law suits are being discussed knowing full well this was not an attack but a heavy dog greeting. If you reply, pls remember that your missing my voice and physical presence & eye to eye contact but you have my genuine emotional understanding to your situation and i mean no disrespect at all.
your beef seems to be less with the dog and more about the owners and making them pay. There is no law that requires people to act the way you want them to, this is difficult to compartamentalize i know. If you wanna work them over till they beg you to stop, i dont see even that being enough based on what your saying. The Ex-wife seems to have been an ass on the front end and she could have prevented a lot of this,, then again maybe not. We as parents get worked up quickly and volcano like when our kids are hurt.
J, i take no offense at what you wrote. Let me try though and clarify my postings, as i wrote much of it while feeling very upset and emotional.
1. The dog barreled into my son and the puppy cutting him up pretty good. It was like an attack as there was no warning of the dog coming. The dogs actions are irrelevant as the impression my son had was that of being helpless in the face of situation he did not ask for or expect. The owner was not only absent, and not in pursuit of the dog, but was absent for more than 10 minutes after the incident, 2 adult leaders literally had a stand off with the dog until the owner whisked him away.
2. It was only after careful examination, that we saw my son was not bitten. I still don't know for sure if my puppy was trampled in the fray, or if the Pit bit down hard on him, but not breaking the skin. (Scout is less than 12 pounds, the Pit was over 100.)
3. The owners attitude heightened the sense that this was a dangerous dog, firstly by the complete non-cooperation in obtaining the rabies info. (the dog was out of date, not in compliance) and the total lack of concern for my son, dog or the aftermath of the owners total lack of responsibility. Anger over me asking for a police officer to take a simple incident report. I have since learned that this same dog went after another dog and owner several weeks ago in a similar incident.
4. If this were a typical child i might not split hairs with you over the word attack, but to an autistic child that struggles with emotions and that has an anxiety disorder, this was and felt like an attack to him. He fought off that Pit like a gladiator, and protected his puppy with absolutely no concern for his own well being. He screamed for help when he could no longer keep the pit off our dog. The scratches all over his arms bear witness to that.
5. As for the tax rolls here in NY, i am a brand new dog owner, and not well versed in policy at this point.
6. As for valuation of dogs, i was talking more about liability, and, that much the same with cars, if you want something higher risk, one should pay for that risk in case injury is caused due to the increased risk factors. (no fight here, just makes sense to me)
7. Here are my choices as i see it:
Do nothing and move on.
Make him live up to the promise of taking care of the medical for the dog, and doing something nice for my son.
Sue him in civil court for the max (small claims) $5K
Go after him through his homeowners policy, and sue for big bucks for mental anguish for my autistic son.
I am quite content with the 2nd option, its all i really expected from the start. Based upon the earlier posts about the wife and her asshole attitude, i was seriously leaning towards option 4. I felt a bit better after my discussion with the Husband the next morning, as he accepted total responsibility for what happened, made no excuses, and apologized and offered to make me whole financially. It was the decent and correct thing to do, and all i was looking for from the beginning. Her lies, subterfuge, and tap dancing only served to incite me, and make a tense situation worse. The next day, just for the record, i called her to follow up, as she showed up to the scene after i took the dog to the emergency vet leaving her info. (Different name than the police report) Her first question to me was how is my dog. My dog? How about my kid you ignorant asswipe.... (i almost said that to her) My final question to her was can i please have your last name, i waited 10 seconds with total silence, before she said it(different name than she gave in the report). She then told me that the dog was just visiting for the day, and belongs to her ex-husband. My call with her soon to be ex, minutes later, contradicted nearly everything she said to me. Civil action was seeming like the only way i was going to get anyone to accept any responsibility for what occurred. According to cop on the scene, he told me that its a civil matter as well, and that based upon her attitude and what he saw, i would be crazy not to go after her. She actually said to me, after refusing to pay for the vet, and walking away from me, how do i know your dog didn't have a limp already? Its just insult to injury, and to be honest and not dramatic, i have no idea if this will affect my son in any long term way. I could easily sue and go after the homeowners policy, and you tell me what insurance attorney would want to march into court defending a Pit Bull and the moron owner who let the dog get out for 10+ unsupervised minutes, the lies and stalling from the owner, the expired rabies vac, and my mentally scarred autistic son, who was sitting on the grass with his properly leashed dog on a Boy Scout Outing? Nightmare case, slam dunk settlement. Im not a litigious person,(believe me we could use the money right now after the year we have had) and only ever want whats fair, but believe me, if this person fails to make good on what he said he would do, i will take whatever steps i need to make this turn out right for my family. I hope he does right and we can all just move ahead.
Thanks to all for the comments, concern and well wishes. I will post an update once its all resolved with these people, or not.
Hey Dave, I just saw this, ( I don't get on here as much as I used to.) sorry it happened. I'm glad to see your son and his puppy are okay. That's the important thing. He really is quite the trooper protecting his pup the way he did. I just hope it all works out in the end for yinz.
Thanks Jay, appreciate it.....
i hope you do update us, there are many lessons we can all learn from your situation if this happens to us.
Your son was brave and protecting his pup was admirable to say the least~!!!
Will do J, thanks for all of your thoughts and comments as well.
Hi there,
New to the forum and this caught my eye. Glad child and dog are OK, traumatic events like this can be particularly hard on children. I went on 13 separate dog bite/attack calls when I was a firefighter and all but one was either a pit or pit mix. The one exception was a German Shepard. It really bothers me when I see people try and excuse or marginalize certain breeds behaviors such as the Pit. I know any dog can get out of control but it sure seems certain breeds have a propensity for it. I'm also glad it was only a rough greeting by an overly excited dog who didn't know it's own strength. Things could definitely have turned out different and worse.
Though I generally don't sway towards litigation to solve problems, when an irresponsible owner such as this lady act in the manner she did, perhaps it's the best course.
Sorry to hear the little ones got beat up im glad theyre both recovering quickly. As for the dog, thats all on the owner. I have a full blooded pit and shes just as sweet as they come... but she was raised to be that way with all the tlc in the world. Horrible owners that cant handle the dog or neglect the dog will turn them. Hell they are finiky depending on how theyre fed even. People just dont know how to handle them. I love my Sammi girl and John (1badbird) can attest this ones a big ole ball of love lol. If you bring up a dog in an apartment with little food they get the itch to get out and run!
Sucks that it happened. Period. Dogs are like kids to a point they need loads of attention or they start becoming defiant and rebellious.
/end rambling