Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 07:33:13 AM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 07:33:13 AM
do we have any threads floating around about converting an 85 5.0 to efi. I'd like to convert the Vert, and seeing I have many parts floating around for EfI, including computer and wiring harness, is it at all do-able?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on July 13, 2013, 08:56:16 AM
Post by: jcassity on July 13, 2013, 08:56:16 AM
here is my theory,
use a 5.0L truck eec, injectors and your existing wire harness along with the trucks map sensor making it speed density , could do an ho cam i suppose.
"EFI" labled upper intakes or "FUEL INJECTED EFI" upper intakes all use the same fuel delivery eec architecture on your eec pins 58 and 59. all injectors on one side of the motor fire off at once then all 4 on the other side fire off.
this is the same as "CFI" essentially.
the 1988 Bird V6 was a one year only deal that saw a "Fuel Injected EFI" which fires just like CFI.
my point is you could use your existing harness if you went this route... gas mileage may not be so bad either,, just a theory.
with only like 89 of the verts made,, the 5.0L CFI trottle body found on a lot of early LTD's and such would really wake up your car,,,keeping it original somewhat.
I know the CFI stuff really well, that V6 just needs a little more air.
ive never heard of any of the verts havng anything other than the CFI V6 engines.
since you have the harness and such, its basically replicating what is under the hood of your formly white LS and repeat that over to the vert.
I am basically doing the same to my white LS which is idetnical to what yours was,, i just got a harness and have excess parts so this winter is my youngest boys build starting up.
use a 5.0L truck eec, injectors and your existing wire harness along with the trucks map sensor making it speed density , could do an ho cam i suppose.
"EFI" labled upper intakes or "FUEL INJECTED EFI" upper intakes all use the same fuel delivery eec architecture on your eec pins 58 and 59. all injectors on one side of the motor fire off at once then all 4 on the other side fire off.
this is the same as "CFI" essentially.
the 1988 Bird V6 was a one year only deal that saw a "Fuel Injected EFI" which fires just like CFI.
my point is you could use your existing harness if you went this route... gas mileage may not be so bad either,, just a theory.
with only like 89 of the verts made,, the 5.0L CFI trottle body found on a lot of early LTD's and such would really wake up your car,,,keeping it original somewhat.
I know the CFI stuff really well, that V6 just needs a little more air.
ive never heard of any of the verts havng anything other than the CFI V6 engines.
since you have the harness and such, its basically replicating what is under the hood of your formly white LS and repeat that over to the vert.
I am basically doing the same to my white LS which is idetnical to what yours was,, i just got a harness and have excess parts so this winter is my youngest boys build starting up.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 04:16:12 PM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 04:16:12 PM
I have an 85 V8 CFI vert, 1 of 16 or so...it needs a lot of help to idle right now, I'd like to make it a little more user friendly. I already have upper and lower intake, injectors, computer, wiring harness, and a t-body all from my 87 parts bird,think all I would need is a fuel rail.... I believe I have the nylon lines to run to the tank too, my real question is, is it doable on the 85 V8? or am I going to run into problems trying to do this?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
or should I just upgrade the CFI I have now like Jcassity said? I dont know what direction I should go to remedy the old tired parts that will need to be replaced
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on July 13, 2013, 05:25:25 PM
Post by: softtouch on July 13, 2013, 05:25:25 PM
CFI has one unheated O2 sensor. EEC Pin 29
SEFI has two heated O2 sensors. EEC Pin 29 Right side and EEC Pin 43 Left side.
CFI has an EGR Control Solenoid, EEC Pin 52, and a EGR Vent Solenoid , EEC Pin 33.
SEFI has an EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid. EEC pin 33.
CFI has Throttle kicker solenoid. EEC pin 53.
SEFI has an Idle speed control solenoid. EEC Pin 21
CFI has a Manifold charge temperature sensor. EEC Pin 25
SEFI has an AIR charge temperature sensor. EEC pin 25
CFI has an exhaust heat control solenoid. EEC Pin 35
SEFI has nothing equivalent.
Is the '85 battery on the passenger side?
Does SEFI require a different distributor?
SEFI has two heated O2 sensors. EEC Pin 29 Right side and EEC Pin 43 Left side.
CFI has an EGR Control Solenoid, EEC Pin 52, and a EGR Vent Solenoid , EEC Pin 33.
SEFI has an EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid. EEC pin 33.
CFI has Throttle kicker solenoid. EEC pin 53.
SEFI has an Idle speed control solenoid. EEC Pin 21
CFI has a Manifold charge temperature sensor. EEC Pin 25
SEFI has an AIR charge temperature sensor. EEC pin 25
CFI has an exhaust heat control solenoid. EEC Pin 35
SEFI has nothing equivalent.
Is the '85 battery on the passenger side?
Does SEFI require a different distributor?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 05:31:46 PM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 05:31:46 PM
yes the battery is on the Passenger side...
No idea if the distributer is different
No idea if the distributer is different
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on July 13, 2013, 06:16:19 PM
Post by: softtouch on July 13, 2013, 06:16:19 PM
Auto Zone shows different part numbers for 85 and 87 distributors.
Moving the battery may be the biggest pain.
Moving the battery may be the biggest pain.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 06:39:17 PM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 06:39:17 PM
changing the battery over wasn't to bad in my 87 3.8
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on July 13, 2013, 08:22:03 PM
Post by: Haystack on July 13, 2013, 08:22:03 PM
damiac, when you went from cfi to the 5.0 on your black car, you essentially did a sefi swap. you've already done a cfi to sefi swap.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 08:30:40 PM
Post by: daminc on July 13, 2013, 08:30:40 PM
so in a nutshell.. I can just bolt all the stuff to the engine that I need to make it Sefi? even being an older block with E5 heads? what about the distributer being a diff part #?
is it because the lower intake is diff? I'd hate to get half way through and it's not going to work.
is it because the lower intake is diff? I'd hate to get half way through and it's not going to work.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on July 13, 2013, 10:16:48 PM
Post by: Haystack on July 13, 2013, 10:16:48 PM
cfi uses a duraspark ignition system. the newer tfi system is more standard of an ignition system. I'm sure you could keep the old distributor and ignition, but I would upgrade to tfi if it were me.
everything should bolt up fine. the old heads are better then e6 heads and are very similar to e7's.
everything should bolt up fine. the old heads are better then e6 heads and are very similar to e7's.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on July 14, 2013, 01:16:50 AM
Post by: jcassity on July 14, 2013, 01:16:50 AM
Quote from: Haystack;418585
cfi uses a duraspark ignition system. the newer tfi system is more standard of an ignition system. I'm sure you could keep the old distributor and ignition, but I would upgrade to tfi if it were me.
everything should bolt up fine. the old heads are better then e6 heads and are very similar to e7's.
nope,, and yes,, the yes part applies to one year only.
his CFI uses the TFI/stator as we do.. all the same. the pn difference is the height of the shank on the dizzy of the 3.8 compared to the 5.0.
if your gonna go 5.0 in there, will all come together anyway so the dizzy thing is moot.
yes you can just dump all the SEFI stuff you want in there and still run the same heads.
, it will all come together basically likey your LS did.
good call by softtouch for engine bay stuff, the LS 3.8L CFI's i am 99% sure all had thier battery on the passanger side,,
if you think your parts compatibility is going to benefit you in the long run (thats what i would be thinking) then yes migrate away from CFI. Add larger TB but keep the Green top injectors (minus the injector screen) and that will be a night and day difference in the cars response and power. THis would be the most transpartent change and keeping all visually original.
Your CFI fuel pres regulator is adjustable as well incase you didnt know, there a plug on the top,, drill and pop it out and there resides the allen screw. if its a plastic plug on top, its aftermarket.
IIRC,, one complete rotation clockwise is about 3psi increase
interestingly enough,, CFI chassis car is itching to have its **********************REAR PASS******* fuel lines grafted into the fuel rail of a ford explorer fuel rail system,,,, HINT HINT,,, not so on the oem set up on the fox 5.0~~!! so you will be in good shap if you use your inginuity you may be the first to integrate oem explorer fuel rails to your ready and waiting fuel lines ***with*** a cleaner fuel supply line system in the rear.
i was just talking about this a couple days ago with 86tbird down in FL.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on July 14, 2013, 01:28:07 AM
Post by: softtouch on July 14, 2013, 01:28:07 AM
The 85 CFI does use the EEC IV TFI ignition.
I believe the SEFI distributor PIP has one pulse a different width than the rest to designate cylinder #1. So it also serves as a crankcase position sensor. This is so the EEC can synchronize the injectors with the cylinder that has its' intake valve open.
I believe the SEFI distributor PIP has one pulse a different width than the rest to designate cylinder #1. So it also serves as a crankcase position sensor. This is so the EEC can synchronize the injectors with the cylinder that has its' intake valve open.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 07:52:12 AM
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 07:52:12 AM
this is interesting, because I just happen to only need a fuel rail and a larger T-body to make this happen....... and probably the distributer. I dont think I have an extra for a SEFI .
tell me more about this explorer rail, and what are green top injectors?
tell me more about this explorer rail, and what are green top injectors?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on July 14, 2013, 11:09:52 AM
Post by: jcassity on July 14, 2013, 11:09:52 AM
the exporer fuel rails source and return both dump down along the rear of the engine,, thats a perfect match to "about" where your screw on CFI lines stop.
the fox body sefi fuel rails all come in up front on the pass side engine bay,,
what im saying is that your car/chassis design is compatable with the explorer fuel rail design ~less the connectivity and figuring that out.
your green top injectors you have now (thats what you should have) are 34lb / hr high resistance.
The 5.0CFI came with blue top 54lb high resistance injectors and a much larger air tunnel ports and trottle plates.
simply install your green top injectors into the 5.0 CFI and you move more air. you will notice that the v6 cfi air tunnel ports dont match the much larger EGR spacer plate.
The 5.0 CFI air tunnel matches up perfectly.
The CFI splits in half via 4 phillups screws from the bottom... basically the 5.0 lower half cfi has the larger air tunnes as compared to your v6 CFI lower half.
i highly recommend a speed handle and an apex tip phillups bit,, these screws are a to get out due to they corrode.
one good and basic reason for lack of power right off the top of my head is...........
--- remove cfi 4 nuts and linkages ect
---the rear gold looking drivers side vac line fitting will likely be carbon clogged once you flip the cfi over and see the problem, chip away all the stuff that doesnt belong.
---the hesitation you feel when flooring the gas is a gas flow problem.
---remove the injector screens and vula, no more hesitation... i and others chased this issue down for months and most of us having no codes or no problems with our engines,, of course im on a very small team of people who tried it and liked it. shiznit can the screens, they are a restriction for the small motor,, thats what your fuel filter is for.
the fox body sefi fuel rails all come in up front on the pass side engine bay,,
what im saying is that your car/chassis design is compatable with the explorer fuel rail design ~less the connectivity and figuring that out.
your green top injectors you have now (thats what you should have) are 34lb / hr high resistance.
The 5.0CFI came with blue top 54lb high resistance injectors and a much larger air tunnel ports and trottle plates.
simply install your green top injectors into the 5.0 CFI and you move more air. you will notice that the v6 cfi air tunnel ports dont match the much larger EGR spacer plate.
The 5.0 CFI air tunnel matches up perfectly.
The CFI splits in half via 4 phillups screws from the bottom... basically the 5.0 lower half cfi has the larger air tunnes as compared to your v6 CFI lower half.
i highly recommend a speed handle and an apex tip phillups bit,, these screws are a to get out due to they corrode.
one good and basic reason for lack of power right off the top of my head is...........
--- remove cfi 4 nuts and linkages ect
---the rear gold looking drivers side vac line fitting will likely be carbon clogged once you flip the cfi over and see the problem, chip away all the stuff that doesnt belong.
---the hesitation you feel when flooring the gas is a gas flow problem.
---remove the injector screens and vula, no more hesitation... i and others chased this issue down for months and most of us having no codes or no problems with our engines,, of course im on a very small team of people who tried it and liked it. shiznit can the screens, they are a restriction for the small motor,, thats what your fuel filter is for.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 14, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 14, 2013, 12:28:44 PM
Just a thought here in case these fittings would be an option for anyone wanting to adapt from AN fittings to the injection fuel rails (they are black and about half way down the page):
http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fuel-efi.shtml
Darren
http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fuel-efi.shtml
Darren
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 14, 2013, 12:43:42 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 14, 2013, 12:43:42 PM
Hey Jerry I got some of the things you need, let me know. some mass air stuff to.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: 875tbird on July 14, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
Post by: 875tbird on July 14, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
daminc, I did a swap similar to this about a year ago on my 85(3.8 to 5.0). To be able to use the ’96 Explorer fuel rails, I used the fuel lines coming off the rail and used Dorman fuel line connectors PN# 800-130 & 800-131, they are listed for a 1996 Ford Explorer 5.0, and attached them to the stock CFI fuel lines as shown below.
Also here is where the lines meet the fuel rail.
Also here is where the lines meet the fuel rail.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 03:42:23 PM
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 03:42:23 PM
Quote from: jcassity;418614
the exporer fuel rails source and return both dump down along the rear of the engine,, thats a perfect match to "about" where your screw on CFI lines stop.
the fox body sefi fuel rails all come in up front on the pass side engine bay,,
what im saying is that your car/chassis design is compatable with the explorer fuel rail design ~less the connectivity and figuring that out.
your green top injectors you have now (thats what you should have) are 34lb / hr high resistance.
The 5.0CFI came with blue top 54lb high resistance injectors and a much larger air tunnel ports and trottle plates.
simply install your green top injectors into the 5.0 CFI and you move more air. you will notice that the v6 cfi air tunnel ports dont match the much larger EGR spacer plate.
The 5.0 CFI air tunnel matches up perfectly.
The CFI splits in half via 4 phillups screws from the bottom... basically the 5.0 lower half cfi has the larger air tunnes as compared to your v6 CFI lower half.
i highly recommend a speed handle and an apex tip phillups bit,, these screws are a to get out due to they corrode.
one good and basic reason for lack of power right off the top of my head is...........
--- remove cfi 4 nuts and linkages ect
---the rear gold looking drivers side vac line fitting will likely be carbon clogged once you flip the cfi over and see the problem, chip away all the stuff that doesnt belong.
---the hesitation you feel when flooring the gas is a gas flow problem.
---remove the injector screens and vula, no more hesitation... i and others chased this issue down for months and most of us having no codes or no problems with our engines,, of course im on a very small team of people who tried it and liked it. shiznit can the screens, they are a restriction for the small motor,, thats what your fuel filter is for.
Scott, I'm gonna check the carbon buildup, and injector screens this week....
you know I don't have a V6 CFI, right, your confusing me a bit with the V6 and V8 info...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 03:52:18 PM
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 03:52:18 PM
awesome... I see now why to use the explorer rails... thanks for the help and the links everyone...
Kitz, I'll be in contact after I see what I'm missing for this swap.... I guess I'll be looking for an Explorer fuel rail next.... anybody got one kicking around
Kitz, I'll be in contact after I see what I'm missing for this swap.... I guess I'll be looking for an Explorer fuel rail next.... anybody got one kicking around
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on July 14, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
Post by: Haystack on July 14, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
I wonder if Scott is keeping his off his new explorer motor? sorry for the bad info, I thought 83-85.5.0 were all the same.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 09:20:25 PM
Post by: daminc on July 14, 2013, 09:20:25 PM
I found an Explorer fuel rail already.... or I should say, it found me this afternoon... lol
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on July 15, 2013, 07:50:56 AM
Post by: jcassity on July 15, 2013, 07:50:56 AM
apparently i cant read, ditch the v6 info like you said,,
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: beast50 on July 15, 2013, 09:18:23 AM
Post by: beast50 on July 15, 2013, 09:18:23 AM
:burnout:good info guys!! I enjoyed the info and pictures on retrofitting. Keeps my wheels turning
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on August 16, 2013, 11:09:16 PM
Post by: daminc on August 16, 2013, 11:09:16 PM
ok back to this upgrade.... I'm making a list of parts to swap for this. I'd like to make this a complete list for future reading.... let me know what I'm missing in my list and I will update it
parts needed to swap 302 CFI to SEFI
lower intake
upper intake
throttle body
injectors
fuel rail from an explorer
distributer
wiring harness and computer
throttle cable
Aod tv cable
parts needed to swap 302 CFI to SEFI
lower intake
upper intake
throttle body
injectors
fuel rail from an explorer
distributer
wiring harness and computer
throttle cable
Aod tv cable
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2013, 12:15:03 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 19, 2013, 12:15:03 AM
If you are going SEFI with a Mustang computer (you would have to if you go MAF) than you would also need a HO firing order cam. If you have a Thunderbird/Cougar SD computer than you could stay SD and stick with the cam you have. If you're that far into it you might as well stick a HO cam in. If you go with a roller cam make sure you use the proper gear for a roller cam on the distributor.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on August 19, 2013, 08:12:44 AM
Post by: daminc on August 19, 2013, 08:12:44 AM
I'm not planning on going that far with this motor.I don't know the first thing about installing a cam or anything else in it. I would build another while I kept this one on the road. I drove this car 20 miles since last year, and if you ever drove a cougar vert, you learn that going fast is not the safest thing to do..... I cant even imagine how that thing would fold up without having a roof on it, if it was in any kind of accident.
I got all SD stuff already from before I upgraded my 87
I got all SD stuff already from before I upgraded my 87
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: V8Demon on February 26, 2014, 01:35:39 PM
Post by: V8Demon on February 26, 2014, 01:35:39 PM
...Old thread, but I feel I should point this out. A newer style distributor is going to have a hardened steel gear on the end. These are intended to be used with roller camshafts. Use of them on a non-roller cam will cause issues....you know.....turning your camshaft gear into metal shavings that will show up in your oil pan and pump pickup screen. The non-roller distributors have a cast iron gear.
In 1985 the manual transmission 5.0 equipped Mustang was the only Ford product to have the steel gear. If it had a manual trans in it it had a carb on top as well in 1985. All other 5.0 equipped cars got the swap to the steel gear in later years as the swap to roller cams was made. If you're gonna keep the stock camshaft, I suppose you could swap a cast gear onto a newer distributor.
In 1985 the manual transmission 5.0 equipped Mustang was the only Ford product to have the steel gear. If it had a manual trans in it it had a carb on top as well in 1985. All other 5.0 equipped cars got the swap to the steel gear in later years as the swap to roller cams was made. If you're gonna keep the stock camshaft, I suppose you could swap a cast gear onto a newer distributor.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2014, 10:55:51 PM
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2014, 10:55:51 PM
I wanted to find this very thread last summer doing my sons build,, I asked the question and there wasn't much popular concern about it... I knew we had this discussion a while back.
we ended up using an HO roller cam against his oem 88 bird dizzy.
see any issues with that?
we ended up using an HO roller cam against his oem 88 bird dizzy.
see any issues with that?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 27, 2014, 11:04:41 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 27, 2014, 11:04:41 PM
Quote from: jcassity;429731
we ended up using an HO roller cam against his oem 88 bird dizzy.
see any issues with that?
Nope...
As far as swapping gears it sounds simple but I've read there isn't a actual location for the hole... In other words the gear is pressed on, hole drilled then pin inserted... A pirated gear from another dist may have the hole too high or low for your dist. plus they are not always on center, so pin won't fit at all...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on February 28, 2014, 08:05:53 AM
Post by: daminc on February 28, 2014, 08:05:53 AM
nothing seems like its going to be a quick upgrade with this…..on another note, My fuel lines are coming up on the passenger side.. I thought they were on the drivers side, until I got it parked in my shop for the winter to investigate the situation.. I guess thats a plus. I had to take a break from that project for a couple months, but I did locate some of the parts I will need from Graham, and Vinnie.. I have another explorer upper already, so now, I'm thinking If I have to change the cam I will go that route if it saves trouble in the long run. I got a guy that can do it for me if needed
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on February 28, 2014, 08:08:59 AM
Post by: daminc on February 28, 2014, 08:08:59 AM
and I still don't know if its a roller motor or not. And I don't know if it's ever been swapped in the past.. guess I have to do more investigating.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: V8Demon on February 28, 2014, 12:24:01 PM
Post by: V8Demon on February 28, 2014, 12:24:01 PM
Mid-late '80's F-Series pickups had roller blocks, but NON-roller camshafts.....In fact 1994 was the first year for a roller cam in an F-series 302 (Some sources say 1992 so stay safe and go with 1989 or 1990 as a reference point when ordering stuff). A major difference is the fact that they were batch/bank fire as opposed to SEFI. The distributor will have the correct gear. I would venture to guess that there is a difference in the PIP setup. Perhaps it would be possible to swap an SEFI PIP into this particular distributor. Anyone know for sure if this would work or even if it would need to be swapped?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 28, 2014, 04:42:44 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 28, 2014, 04:42:44 PM
Quote from: daminc;429755
and I still don't know if its a roller motor or not. And I don't know if it's ever been swapped in the past.. guess I have to do more investigating.
Unless it's been swapped it isn't roller, possibly has a roller block though as they were phased into all lines during 1985 production...
All you have to do is measure a push rod, 6.80" is non-roller, 6.25" were used with roller cams...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on February 28, 2014, 10:02:53 PM
Post by: Haystack on February 28, 2014, 10:02:53 PM
My 85 block came with a non roller cam, but had the correct roller block.
Id buy a cheap h.o. motor, pull the camshaft, engine harness, and what ever else you need, once you verify its a roller block.
Id buy a cheap h.o. motor, pull the camshaft, engine harness, and what ever else you need, once you verify its a roller block.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 08, 2015, 09:50:18 PM
Post by: daminc on March 08, 2015, 09:50:18 PM
think I found the last of my EFI parts.... will be investigating the whole distributer situation soon...hope to get this swapped before it gets warm
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 08, 2015, 11:22:40 PM
Post by: Beau on March 08, 2015, 11:22:40 PM
I've also got a roller-specific (steel gear) distributor, or 4....
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 09, 2015, 08:22:00 AM
Post by: daminc on March 09, 2015, 08:22:00 AM
getting back to the distributer....
why do I need to change the distributer and gear it if it already has an EEC IV TFI, and I'm not changing the cam?
why do I need to change the distributer and gear it if it already has an EEC IV TFI, and I'm not changing the cam?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 09:07:58 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 09:07:58 AM
Quote from: daminc;445781
getting back to the distributer....
why do I need to change the distributer and gear it if it already has an EEC IV TFI, and I'm not changing the cam?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: V8Demon on March 09, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Post by: V8Demon on March 09, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Tom, is the PIP the same from batch fire to SEFI or is there a difference?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 11:08:14 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;445784
Tom, is the PIP the same from batch fire to SEFI or is there a difference?
To be sure I checked PIP for each system, same part number...
As long as we're not talking mass air or a HO SEFI that requires the 13726548 HO firing order cam, should be no problem... With the 15426378 stock firing order 5.0 cam, all that can be used(or at least should be) is the SO system that has 14 Lb inj...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 09, 2015, 01:25:17 PM
Post by: daminc on March 09, 2015, 01:25:17 PM
one last question I have ...
Do I need to swap the fuel pump for a better one?
Do I need to swap the fuel pump for a better one?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 09, 2015, 03:19:28 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 09, 2015, 03:19:28 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445783
Gear material matches cam, not the type injection system, do not change it... AFAIK your current dist should be fine, it just produces a ign pulse to operate coil and send pulse to ECM, same in either system...
I believe the "vane" in the SEFI distributer has one tooth a different size to identify cylinder #1.
It makes the distributer act as a CCP sensor.
This is so the EEC can synchronize the injectors with the cylinder with the open intake valve.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 06:18:10 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 09, 2015, 06:18:10 PM
I know you're correct on the SEFI but would not the batch fire system also require reference to #1?? If it started firing injectors on the first tooth that passed through the PIP could just as easily have them 180* out of sequence as in time.... Would still run but not very well...
If they are different would be easy enough to replace with the correct vane disc, as it's only held in place by two screws...
If they are different would be easy enough to replace with the correct vane disc, as it's only held in place by two screws...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on March 09, 2015, 06:24:55 PM
Post by: Haystack on March 09, 2015, 06:24:55 PM
Cfi also fires into the intake rather then each individual injector.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 01:02:22 AM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 01:02:22 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445802
I know you're correct on the SEFI but would not the batch fire system also require reference to #1??
Quote
If they are different would be easy enough to replace with the correct vane disc, as it's only held in place by two screws...
Don't know if the different size vane or window is obvious to the naked eye or not.
Maybe daminic has a micrometer he can check it with.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 10, 2015, 02:51:26 AM
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 10, 2015, 02:51:26 AM
If he would use a ho sd ecc with 19 injectors, couldn't he match the ho firing order to the sd order? #1 would be the same ,make the ho #3 ,#5 on the sd and so on and on with the rest of the firing order. That is if he was using an ho engine harness, or repin the sd harness to to the ho ecc.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:41:20 AM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:41:20 AM
Quote from: softtouch;445829
I can't find where it is available as a part. They call it a rotary armature with vanes and windows or some places just a rotary vane.
Don't know if the different size vane or window is obvious to the naked eye or not.
Maybe daminic has a micrometer he can check it with.
He does....but he also has no clue what we are even talking about at this point...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
Quote from: daminc;445831
He does....but he also has no clue what we are even talking about at this point...
This is a SEFI dist, no idea if the CFI uses same disc/vane, like a 3.8, never owned one, never plan to...
The two screws on top hold it in place, so would be easy to swap if you found one separate or maybe a junk dist...
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q765/xxAMxx/TurboCoupe50/fordtfidist_zpsooiiyonf.jpg)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on March 10, 2015, 11:26:15 AM
Post by: Haystack on March 10, 2015, 11:26:15 AM
No, you can't. The firing order switches which sides fire when, the eec would think it was rich on the wrong side with a s.o. cam.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 02:06:43 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 02:06:43 PM
My 84 3.8 CFI had the round rotor that screwed on. The rotor mounting plate and the vane armature were riveted together and not removable from the top. They are part of the shaft, swedged on there or something.
To replace the PIP hall effect pick-up, I had to take the gear off the bottom and pull the shaft out.
You can see some of the vanes from the top. But not sure if you can see the ones under the rotor mounting plate.
Don't know if the 5.0 CFI is made that way.
To replace the PIP hall effect pick-up, I had to take the gear off the bottom and pull the shaft out.
You can see some of the vanes from the top. But not sure if you can see the ones under the rotor mounting plate.
Don't know if the 5.0 CFI is made that way.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 10, 2015, 02:09:50 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 10, 2015, 02:09:50 PM
Quote from: Haystack;445837
No, you can't. The firing order switches which sides fire when, the eec would think it was rich on the wrong side with a s.o. cam.
Is this an answer to my post?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 02:40:20 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445840
My 84 3.8 CFI had the round rotor that screwed on. The rotor mounting plate and the vane armature were riveted together and not removable from the top. They are part of the shaft, swedged on there or something.
To replace the PIP hall effect pick-up, I had to take the gear off the bottom and pull the shaft out.
You can see some of the vanes from the top. But not sure if you can see the ones under the rotor mounting plate.
Don't know if the 5.0 CFI is made that way.
It's still necessary to remove gear to repl PIP on 5.0 dist as the mount for vane disc is too large for a PIP to fit over it...
Apparently they are different, the Probst Ford FI manual states the narrow vane is used as a cylinder identifier in the SEFI systems that use signature PIP, so I'm assuming they are all one size in the CFI & batch fire systems...
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q765/xxAMxx/TurboCoupe50/piparmature_zpsd2dvj0ev.jpg)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 03:06:19 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 03:06:19 PM
Jerry, if you're needing and older style distributor for a non roller cam, but for EFI, I think I have one from an '84 or 85 truck 302. I'd have to look, so don't hold me to that.
Or at least I think that's your angle with this, correct? Finding a dizzy with the right gear?
If that's so, perhaps you could get just a gear from someone/somewhere for the flat tappet cams, if you can't find the dist you do need...or it's not cost efficient..?
Either way, Ill go look. I've got a box of truck 302 stuff...pistons, rods, some other stuff. Hell, I've had it for 15 years...I don't know what's in there. Likey nothing but s metal by now...but I'll look through it.
Also working on getting your items boxed, I should be able to get your quote tomorrow. Wife started a new job last week, so in my off time, I'm now Mr. Mom, dinner cooker, butt wiper, and all that. Trying to keep everything fluid and flowing in the right direction. Ain't easy, but anything worth doing isn't. :)
Let me know on the distributor business..I'll see what I can dredge up. Surely I have one...
Or at least I think that's your angle with this, correct? Finding a dizzy with the right gear?
If that's so, perhaps you could get just a gear from someone/somewhere for the flat tappet cams, if you can't find the dist you do need...or it's not cost efficient..?
Either way, Ill go look. I've got a box of truck 302 stuff...pistons, rods, some other stuff. Hell, I've had it for 15 years...I don't know what's in there. Likey nothing but s metal by now...but I'll look through it.
Also working on getting your items boxed, I should be able to get your quote tomorrow. Wife started a new job last week, so in my off time, I'm now Mr. Mom, dinner cooker, butt wiper, and all that. Trying to keep everything fluid and flowing in the right direction. Ain't easy, but anything worth doing isn't. :)
Let me know on the distributor business..I'll see what I can dredge up. Surely I have one...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 03:44:08 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 03:44:08 PM
I have no idea what anyone is talking about on this thread...
are we now saying that my distributer wont work for my standard SEFI upgrade?
are we now saying that my distributer wont work for my standard SEFI upgrade?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 04:42:04 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 04:42:04 PM
Apparently I'm lost, just as much as you are..
If you have a roller cam engine, you'll need a steel gear on your distributor. Flat tappet cams require a cast iron gear.
By roller, any port fuel injection 5.0 is what you'd need the steel geared dizzy in, to be correct and not tear something up.
Or, a roller cam engine. Depending on what year the engine in your car is, or whether or not it's a roller cam will determine what you need. I was under the assumption you wanted the newer TFI distributor, only with the iron gear for use with the NON roller cam...
As with firing order, the cam controls pretty much all other things, including in this situation, choice of distributor. Not a big deal at all, actually, just have to know what's in there. ;)
If you have a roller cam engine, you'll need a steel gear on your distributor. Flat tappet cams require a cast iron gear.
By roller, any port fuel injection 5.0 is what you'd need the steel geared dizzy in, to be correct and not tear something up.
Or, a roller cam engine. Depending on what year the engine in your car is, or whether or not it's a roller cam will determine what you need. I was under the assumption you wanted the newer TFI distributor, only with the iron gear for use with the NON roller cam...
As with firing order, the cam controls pretty much all other things, including in this situation, choice of distributor. Not a big deal at all, actually, just have to know what's in there. ;)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
but I already have a tfi distributer on the engine now
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 05:09:54 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 05:09:54 PM
I'm very confused about this now
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 05:39:40 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 05:39:40 PM
Do you know if it's a roller engine? Have you had the intake off?
If you pull the intake, and you see the dog bones in the valley, it's a roller, and will have the proper gear on the distributor for what you need and want to do.
If you don't have the dogbones (which is actually the retainer for the roller lifters, to keep them from turning in the lifter bores and causing one HELL of a mess) then you have the flat tappet cam, and the gear on your distributor will which is not good with an HO or any other roller cam.
Sorry to confuse you here, dizzy gear mostly depends on what cam you have, or plan to use. Thankfully, all the roller cams are pretty much standardized, in regards to distributor gear type...mild steel.
See, the reason behind the different gear metals is that if your distributor seizes up, the gear will grind off rather than the cam. Still, it's almost always going to mean a complete rebuild or replacement....metal in the oil, mains, etc. But, unless one actually puts the wrong gear on the wrong cam, it usually doesn't happen.
This has nothing to do with PIP, or anything like that...
Basically, what I'm saying is...if you're don't already have the roller block, and you're going to that end, I have several of the proper distributors for a roller cam. Sorry for confusing you..
If you pull the intake, and you see the dog bones in the valley, it's a roller, and will have the proper gear on the distributor for what you need and want to do.
If you don't have the dogbones (which is actually the retainer for the roller lifters, to keep them from turning in the lifter bores and causing one HELL of a mess) then you have the flat tappet cam, and the gear on your distributor will which is not good with an HO or any other roller cam.
Sorry to confuse you here, dizzy gear mostly depends on what cam you have, or plan to use. Thankfully, all the roller cams are pretty much standardized, in regards to distributor gear type...mild steel.
See, the reason behind the different gear metals is that if your distributor seizes up, the gear will grind off rather than the cam. Still, it's almost always going to mean a complete rebuild or replacement....metal in the oil, mains, etc. But, unless one actually puts the wrong gear on the wrong cam, it usually doesn't happen.
This has nothing to do with PIP, or anything like that...
Basically, what I'm saying is...if you're don't already have the roller block, and you're going to that end, I have several of the proper distributors for a roller cam. Sorry for confusing you..
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:16:45 PM
I think I see where everyone is going with this.....
I am not going HO
I am not changing the cam
I am just making my engine SEFI with everything that it already has in it.
so the question is...will my distributer work adding the upper and lower intake, changing the wiring harness, and using a standard SD computer with a fuel rail and 14# injectors
I am not going HO
I am not changing the cam
I am just making my engine SEFI with everything that it already has in it.
so the question is...will my distributer work adding the upper and lower intake, changing the wiring harness, and using a standard SD computer with a fuel rail and 14# injectors
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 06:17:01 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 06:17:01 PM
Quote from: daminc;445854
I'm very confused about this now
On your CFI the injectors are pulsed without regard to the position of the crankshaft.
86 and up 5.0's have SEFI. The S stands for sequential and means the ECC pulses the injectors in firing order sequence.
It pulses each injector when its associated cylinder has its intake valve open and on its intake stroke.
The SEFI distributor has one PIP pulse that is a different width than the other seven. The EEC uses this to get in sync with the crankshaft.
Does your distributor have the round rotor with two screws holding it on?
If so, reread TurboCoupe50's post# 53.
The standard armature is probably what you have.
The signature PIP armature is what you need.
The armatures are what your rotor bolts onto.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 06:22:55 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 06:22:55 PM
Quote from: daminc;445858
I think I see where everyone is going with this.....
I am not going HO
I am not changing the cam
I am just making my engine SEFI with everything that it already has in it.
so the question is...will my distributer work adding the upper and lower intake, changing the wiring harness, and using a standard SD computer with a fuel rail and 14# injectors
Well. No. The SEFI computer uses a different PIP module and vane arrangement in the distributor than the distributor you currently have in your 85. So basically you need a distributor from an 86-93 5.0 Mustang, 86-88 5.0 Thunderbird/Cougar 5.0, or 86-92 Lincoln Mark VII. Then you'll need to have the steel gear on that distributor swapped to a cast iron gear like you have on the distributor currently in your 85 Convertible. Once you do that you'll be good to go.
Edit: I'm wrong. The PIP sensor is the same from 84 and up. You just need to swap the CFI vane in the distributor to a SEFI vane.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:35:57 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:35:57 PM
so is this part able to be swapped in the dist? or will it be something that is not going to just bolt right in?
has anybody ever done this before?
has anybody ever done this before?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:37:06 PM
I feel like I'm pioneering this swap....lol
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 06:45:57 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 06:45:57 PM
Quote from: daminc;445862
so is this part able to be swapped in the dist? or will it be something that is not going to just bolt right in?
has anybody ever done this before?
Theoretically you should be able to just change the part by removing the rotor and the two screws below it holding the "vane" assembly on. Theoretically.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:49:37 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;445866
Theoretically you should be able to just change the part by removing the rotor and the two screws below it holding the "vane" assembly on. Theoretically.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 06:57:19 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 06:57:19 PM
If you have the round rotor, I don't think it can be removed.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 06:57:40 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 06:57:40 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;445866
Theoretically you should be able to just change the part by removing the rotor and the two screws below it holding the "vane" assembly on. Theoretically.
Correct, at least theoretically... :hick:
For that matter with a known width one could use a dremel and cut the finger down... I'll have to look again but I believe the smaller finger is offset, meaning the material was removed from one side, would have to be that config or there could be two #1 cylinders...
Quote from: softtouch;445868
If you have the round rotor, I don't think it can be removed.
Correct, at least theoretically... :giggle:
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:09:24 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445868
If you have the round rotor, I don't think it can be removed.
what does the round rotor look like
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:12:53 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:12:53 PM
I'm also willing to take a dremel to it too...whatever it takes to remedy the situation
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 07:28:25 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 07:28:25 PM
Looks like this... But isn't listed for 1985...
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-distributor-rotor-d204p/5202558-P?searchTerm=distributor+rotor+button
Still apparently there two rotors for '85 or maybe Advance just has both rotors listed... One is located by the opening in the vane disc(type the one I pictured uses), the other apparently has a flat on the dist shaft that sets position...
I'd say it's very unlikely vane discs would swap between the two styles...
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-distributor-rotor-d204p/5202558-P?searchTerm=distributor+rotor+button
Still apparently there two rotors for '85 or maybe Advance just has both rotors listed... One is located by the opening in the vane disc(type the one I pictured uses), the other apparently has a flat on the dist shaft that sets position...
I'd say it's very unlikely vane discs would swap between the two styles...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:38:22 PM
this is what I have
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3704_zpsba7lcrru.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3704_zpsba7lcrru.jpg)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:48:07 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:48:07 PM
I suppose tomorrow, I could try to swap the one from my 87 to see if it fits or bolts up to the 85 dist
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 07:48:35 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 10, 2015, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: daminc;445876
this is what I have
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3704_zpsba7lcrru.jpg)
I see two screws on the top of vane plate, appears to be replaceable...
Pull the rotor off and check to see if it has a finger at rear that fits into opening on vane plate... If so thats the common one most, if not all use from '86 up...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 07:50:38 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 07:50:38 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445869
Correct, at least theoretically... :hick:
For that matter with a known width one could use a dremel and cut the finger down... I'll have to look again but I believe the smaller finger is offset, meaning the material was removed from one side, would have to be that config or there could be two #1 cylinders...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:54:40 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445878
I see two screws on the top of vane plate, appears to be replaceable...
Pull the rotor off and check to see if it has a finger at rear that fits into opening on vane plate... If so thats the common one most, if not all use from '86 up...
yes it does...just checked
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:56:29 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 07:56:29 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445879
I remember reading somewhere that the leading or trailing edge of the vane is used for ignition timing. So it is important to cut off the correct side of the correct vane. So you don't have one plug out of time.
so in theory...I can just make it look like the vane in my 87?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 07:59:30 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 07:59:30 PM
Jerry, I have several distributors..want me to take a vane off and put in your parts box?
Give me a few, I'll go dissect one, and report back with some pics..
Give me a few, I'll go dissect one, and report back with some pics..
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:05:25 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;445882
Jerry, I have several distributors..want me to take a vane off and put in your parts box?
Give me a few, I'll go dissect one, and report back with some pics..
I'll have to see if they actually swap tomorrow.... if not, then I'll be making something one way or another
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:17:14 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:17:14 PM
Ok. Will pictures help you figure it out?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:19:54 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:19:54 PM
at this point I dont think so.
I'll try swapping it tomorrow morning, and report back my findings
I'll try swapping it tomorrow morning, and report back my findings
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:22:03 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:22:03 PM
notching the vane sounds like my best option if they dont interchange right now....
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:31:54 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:31:54 PM
Here's mine...this is from my '89 5.0 that I'm currently working on..
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915311125100495_zpshhd5et9u.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915311125100495_zpshhd5et9u.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_191522-1492606567_zps8qebnpqh.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_191522-1492606567_zps8qebnpqh.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915121868170323_zps0zg8a48i.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915121868170323_zps0zg8a48i.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1912232125240380_zps58p7lr2f.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1912232125240380_zps58p7lr2f.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915311125100495_zpshhd5et9u.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915311125100495_zpshhd5et9u.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_191522-1492606567_zps8qebnpqh.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_191522-1492606567_zps8qebnpqh.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915121868170323_zps0zg8a48i.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1915121868170323_zps0zg8a48i.jpg.html")
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/fordtruckfreeek/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1912232125240380_zps58p7lr2f.jpg) (http://"http://s94.photobucket.com/user/fordtruckfreeek/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_27411-20150310_1912232125240380_zps58p7lr2f.jpg.html")
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 10, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: daminc;445881
so in theory...I can just make it look like the vane in my 87?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:34:56 PM
This is your '85, correct?
I'm willing to bet the shipping cost of your parts that vane is the same as the one I just took out of mine. Those two screws on top..that's all that holds it in. Mind that if you take it out, you mark so it can go back on the same way, else your timing will be 180* out...
Quote from: daminc;445876
this is what I have
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3704_zpsba7lcrru.jpg)
I'm willing to bet the shipping cost of your parts that vane is the same as the one I just took out of mine. Those two screws on top..that's all that holds it in. Mind that if you take it out, you mark so it can go back on the same way, else your timing will be 180* out...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:40:58 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:40:58 PM
the rotor hole will be on one side.... as long as the hole spacing is the same, I dont see why it wouldnt just bolt right in...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:42:19 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:42:19 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445890
Yep. Does this bring out the fabricator in you?
yes....yes it does
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 08:44:36 PM
I can break out the calipers, but it would probably be easier on your end to try the one from your '87. Good chance they're the same. I KNOW I have an older distributor here somewhere...the kids are asleep, gonna grab a light, and go hunting for a minute..
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:46:10 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 08:46:10 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;445894
I can break out the calipers, but it would probably be easier on your end to try the one from your '87. Good chance they're the same. I KNOW I have an older distributor here somewhere...the kids are asleep, gonna grab a light, and go hunting for a minute..
lol.... go for it... I'll be up for 3 more hrs
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 08:58:29 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 10, 2015, 08:58:29 PM
Pop the vanes out of your 87 and 85. If they are both the same you should be good to go. I checked the part numbers and the PIP sensor is the same from 84 and up. The vanes might be the same from 84 and up as well.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 09:23:52 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 09:23:52 PM
Jerry, all of my distributors have a date code of E4....I'm betting there is no difference in them save for the gear being made of iron and steel...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 09:26:46 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 09:26:46 PM
I'll confirm this tomorrow morning
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 09:33:10 PM
Post by: daminc on March 10, 2015, 09:33:10 PM
the one thing I know for sure...
I just learned a ton about a distributor today
I just learned a ton about a distributor today
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 10:20:22 PM
Post by: Beau on March 10, 2015, 10:20:22 PM
I never did find my old distributor(s)..possible I never had any. Anywho, the engine that I had from the truck I mentioned earlier had date stampings of '79 on the pistons...like I said..s metal.
The distributor I took pics of above, I made a mistake...that's from the "50 dollar" 5.0 that had water in 2 cylinders. It was an '89 or '90.
I found the dizzy from the engine on my stand..it's much cleaner, by the way, and a quick inspection shows it to be the same as the one pictured above too.
Also has an E4 casting...in fact, all 5 of the dizzys I have do...even the one on the HO that was in the Sport. Even if the vane is different, odds are it's going to bolt to the distributor...barring a stator variance, which Lou points out as being same '84 up, I'd say you've got this one wrapped, Jerry.
The distributor I took pics of above, I made a mistake...that's from the "50 dollar" 5.0 that had water in 2 cylinders. It was an '89 or '90.
I found the dizzy from the engine on my stand..it's much cleaner, by the way, and a quick inspection shows it to be the same as the one pictured above too.
Also has an E4 casting...in fact, all 5 of the dizzys I have do...even the one on the HO that was in the Sport. Even if the vane is different, odds are it's going to bolt to the distributor...barring a stator variance, which Lou points out as being same '84 up, I'd say you've got this one wrapped, Jerry.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2015, 12:37:12 AM
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2015, 12:37:12 AM
Quote from: daminc;445900
the one thing I know for sure...
I just learned a ton about a distributor today
I just got home and read all of the new stuff since my last post. I too have learned a bit.... Thank you to all.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Haystack on March 11, 2015, 01:16:15 AM
Post by: Haystack on March 11, 2015, 01:16:15 AM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;445841
Is this an answer to my post?
Yes it was, sorry, i forgot to quote you.
Wow lots of info posted here.
I wonder if a late 80's to early 90's f150 dist would be an exact swap for this application? Then you could use the lower and fuel rail and dist, have batch fire and keep the stock cam.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2015, 01:24:46 AM
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2015, 01:24:46 AM
Quote from: Haystack;445909
I wonder if a late 80's to early 90's f150 dist would be an exact swap for this application? Then you could use the lower and fuel rail and dist, have batch fire and keep the stock cam.
I suggested that a while back....
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 02:12:59 AM
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 02:12:59 AM
Depending on year, you'd have to take into account remote TFI, and it's almost embarrassing to say that I don't remember which dizzy gear they used before the roller engines came online in '94...
This thread is pretty informative, and I have a hunch we'll find out that he can use his distributor with the port FI setup, as long as he doesn't change the cam. However, should he ever upgrade to HO specs or above, he'll at least need to convert the block to roller lifters and change distributor to one from a roller 5.0....
Other than that, he's likely got it solved...hopefully. :)
This thread is pretty informative, and I have a hunch we'll find out that he can use his distributor with the port FI setup, as long as he doesn't change the cam. However, should he ever upgrade to HO specs or above, he'll at least need to convert the block to roller lifters and change distributor to one from a roller 5.0....
Other than that, he's likely got it solved...hopefully. :)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 07:31:04 AM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 07:31:04 AM
are the fi50 distributors the same length as the one in my car?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 11, 2015, 07:39:49 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 11, 2015, 07:39:49 AM
Quote from: Haystack;445909
I wonder if a late 80's to early 90's f150 dist would be an exact swap for this application? Then you could use the lower and fuel rail and dist, have batch fire and keep the stock cam.
But the whole point is to convert to SO SEFI using the orig cam which means the signature PIP is required and apparently vane disc is different in batch fire & CFI systems... Easiest by far is swap disc into orig dist, that way one is sure the gear material matches... Tpuppies the finger is also a good alternative...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 11, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 11, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
From '85 or '86 up to the remote mount TFI all 5.0 dist are same, only difference is gear material and apparently the vane disc that's being discussed... 5.8 dist are longer and do not fit a 5.0...
To be sure gear material matches, I'd keep the orig dist and swap vane disc or trim the finger...
To be sure gear material matches, I'd keep the orig dist and swap vane disc or trim the finger...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 08:14:56 AM
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 08:14:56 AM
And in an earlier post, I said something about marking the vane so it could go back on the same way..
Well, after looking closer at the one from my project engine, I realized they only go on one way...there's a raised section that fits into the vane...no way to put it on wrong.
Well, after looking closer at the one from my project engine, I realized they only go on one way...there's a raised section that fits into the vane...no way to put it on wrong.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 08:28:25 AM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 08:28:25 AM
I'm going out there in about a 1/2 hr....I'll take pics
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 10:31:24 AM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 10:31:24 AM
here they are side by side.... the one on the right is from my 87. the left is the 85
the vane from the 85 is turned 180deg from the one on the right
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3705_zpslpss6qzn.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3706_zpsiwrcvhux.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3707_zpshqxfgpbm.jpg)
I did some measuring, and found that on both, the spaces measured just shy of 13mm more or less.
The spacing on the vane from my 87 is just shy of 16mm between the #1 and #8 (I'm assuming)
85 has an 8 stamped on it.....(assuming for 8 cylinder)
87 has an #8F stamped on it....(assuming for 8 cylinder fuel injection)
I tried my best to install both of these incorrectly... cant be done. the elongated slots are in different positions measured from the center
the 87 vane was a direct swap for the 85 vane, no matter how hard I tried to put in in wrong
here is the vane from the 87 in the 85 dist
rotor is in the same position that it was on the other vane
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3708_zpsh1nta3hg.jpg)
conclusion...... I need to get a vane from a fuel injected distributor, and this will be doable
the vane from the 85 is turned 180deg from the one on the right
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3705_zpslpss6qzn.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3706_zpsiwrcvhux.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3707_zpshqxfgpbm.jpg)
I did some measuring, and found that on both, the spaces measured just shy of 13mm more or less.
The spacing on the vane from my 87 is just shy of 16mm between the #1 and #8 (I'm assuming)
85 has an 8 stamped on it.....(assuming for 8 cylinder)
87 has an #8F stamped on it....(assuming for 8 cylinder fuel injection)
I tried my best to install both of these incorrectly... cant be done. the elongated slots are in different positions measured from the center
the 87 vane was a direct swap for the 85 vane, no matter how hard I tried to put in in wrong
here is the vane from the 87 in the 85 dist
rotor is in the same position that it was on the other vane
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/IMG_3708_zpsh1nta3hg.jpg)
conclusion...... I need to get a vane from a fuel injected distributor, and this will be doable
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 01:17:07 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 01:17:07 PM
So surgery on the 85 is not an option?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 01:43:42 PM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445927
So surgery on the 85 is not an option?
well...there's going to be surgery.... but not for this part of the project..
I'll keep everyone up to date as I do the SEFI conversion, and also with the rest of the car... I want to paint it before winter hopefully
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 03:16:08 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 03:16:08 PM
I mean will cutting some off the 85's vane not work or did you just decide not to do it?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:28:44 PM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:28:44 PM
cutting it should work fine, but I got one on the way with the rest of my upgrade parts
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
Thanks. I just want to salt that away for future reference in case it comes up again.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 11, 2015, 03:41:25 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 11, 2015, 03:41:25 PM
Cool. You should be good to go.
I checked the PIP on O'Reilly's website and the Motorcraft one interchanges from 84 up to 93. You won't need to change out the PIP which is good. You have to disassemble the distributor to do so.
I checked the PIP on O'Reilly's website and the Motorcraft one interchanges from 84 up to 93. You won't need to change out the PIP which is good. You have to disassemble the distributor to do so.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:41:58 PM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:41:58 PM
yes take 3mm off the correct one.... not sure how it knows which is the 1st and 8th one though especially between standard and HO
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
Post by: daminc on March 11, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;445939
Cool. You should be good to go.
I checked the PIP on O'Reilly's website and the Motorcraft one interchanges from 84 up to 93. You won't need to change out the PIP which is good. You have to disassemble the distributor to do so.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 04:16:42 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 11, 2015, 04:16:42 PM
Quote from: daminc;445940
yes take 3mm off the correct one.... not sure how it knows which is the 1st and 8th one though especially between standard and HO
Also the same pairs of cylinders come to top dead center at the same time. That's because they have the same crankshaft.
SD 1&6 5&3 4&7 2&8----- HO 1&6 3&5 7&4 2&8
So when #1 is top dead center for ignition #6 is top dead center for injector pulse.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 09:37:35 PM
Post by: Beau on March 11, 2015, 09:37:35 PM
Good info. Wonder why the change in firing orders? Less vibration, (for SO/5.0 trucks), or more power f(or HO applications)?
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;445957
Good info. Wonder why the change in firing orders? Less vibration, (for SO/5.0 trucks), or more power f(or HO applications)?
When the 351 came out in '69 Ford said the different firing order was to revise bearing loads... For power I doubt there's a difference but with a performance exhaust system the 351/HO pattern defiantly has a deeper note to the exhaust... It wasn't obvious in '69 as the Windsor exhaust systems were fairly restrictive but when the free breathing'70 Cleveland debuted, didn't sound like any Ford engine prior...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2015, 11:35:48 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2015, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445972
When the 351 came out in '69 Ford said the different firing order was to revise bearing loads... For power I doubt there's a difference but with a performance exhaust system the 351/HO pattern defiantly has a deeper note to the exhaust... It wasn't obvious in '69 as the Windsor exhaust systems were fairly restrictive but when the free breathing'70 Cleveland debuted, didn't sound like any Ford engine prior...
I think it was something about front a rear main bearing loads. The rear main bearing on a Windsor (302/351) is thicker than the front main bearing. The 351/HO firing order fires two cylinders sequentially on the larger rear main bearing, the 302/SO firing order fires two cylinders sequentially on the front main bearing. Apparently the 351/HO firing order is better for engine life.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Beau on March 12, 2015, 12:59:31 PM
Post by: Beau on March 12, 2015, 12:59:31 PM
Makes pretty good sense. There's a local guy that runs a 5.0 truck in the local mud hole circuit...has a stockish 5.0, and headers and some sort of exhaust, or no exhaust, maybe. Definitely sounds unlike an HO. The bearing load thing, that's new to me, but a good thing.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 12, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
Post by: softtouch on March 12, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
Crossfire between the 7 & 8 plug wires with the SD/Carb sequence used to be a problem. The stock routing crossed the 8 wire over to the opposite side of the bundle so it wouldn't run parallel and close to #7 wire.
7 firing just before 8 messed up the 8 plugs ignition at certain RPMs. Can't remember the details anymore. Haven't heard it talked about in recent years, maybe better quality wires have reduced the problem.
7 firing just before 8 messed up the 8 plugs ignition at certain RPMs. Can't remember the details anymore. Haven't heard it talked about in recent years, maybe better quality wires have reduced the problem.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2015, 05:48:45 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2015, 05:48:45 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445983
Crossfire between the 7 & 8 plug wires with the SD/Carb sequence used to be a problem. The stock routing crossed the 8 wire over to the opposite side of the bundle so it wouldn't run parallel and close to #7 wire.
7 firing just before 8 messed up the 8 plugs ignition at certain RPMs. Can't remember the details anymore. Haven't heard it talked about in recent years, maybe better quality wires have reduced the problem.
You know now that you mention it I have a very old receipt (from sometime in 1990) about the number 8 plug fouling on my Thunderbird. Turns out the ignition wires were going and number 8 was crossfiring. New wires solved the problem (and it was fixed under warranty). Yes I have receipts for work done on my Thunderbird that go back to almost when it was new.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 08:00:43 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: softtouch;445983
Crossfire between the 7 & 8 plug wires with the SD/Carb sequence used to be a problem. The stock routing crossed the 8 wire over to the opposite side of the bundle so it wouldn't run parallel and close to #7 wire.
7 firing just before 8 messed up the 8 plugs ignition at certain RPMs. Can't remember the details anymore. Haven't heard it talked about in recent years, maybe better quality wires have reduced the problem.
Yeah the HO order fixed it alright, now are four wires Ford has routed away from each other...
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q765/xxAMxx/TurboCoupe50/f150plugwire_zps0n81vhtm.jpg)
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: jcassity on March 12, 2015, 09:21:11 PM
Post by: jcassity on March 12, 2015, 09:21:11 PM
this resurrects a very old thread I did near 10 years ago.
I asked the question "does the injector pulse width modulation happen during the "TIME" the metal vane is in front of the pip" or " do the injectors pulse fuel during the open window".
Thundechicken answered and I cant recall , and would have to work very hard to sort by threads by me to find the answer he posted.
it was back during one of my so called brilliant ideas I was having about "forcing" injector s to stay open just a tad longer by machining "off" material on the vane.
this plays out to softtouch and tc50 and which side of the vane gets metal removed ,, as in the direction the dizzy turns naturally.
I think I was told back then that the metal width of each vane kept the injector "on" and the open window kept it off.,,, yet that made no sense when you look at SEFI vanes.,,, that would mean cyl 1 runs LEAN all the time.
in my mind Im over here (at that time) thinking why not machine off .001 off every vane keeping the injectors on just a tad longer.
again I cant recall which way it goes so ..... I didn't really offer any help, and hope I didn't confuse anyone again.
I asked the question "does the injector pulse width modulation happen during the "TIME" the metal vane is in front of the pip" or " do the injectors pulse fuel during the open window".
Thundechicken answered and I cant recall , and would have to work very hard to sort by threads by me to find the answer he posted.
it was back during one of my so called brilliant ideas I was having about "forcing" injector s to stay open just a tad longer by machining "off" material on the vane.
this plays out to softtouch and tc50 and which side of the vane gets metal removed ,, as in the direction the dizzy turns naturally.
I think I was told back then that the metal width of each vane kept the injector "on" and the open window kept it off.,,, yet that made no sense when you look at SEFI vanes.,,, that would mean cyl 1 runs LEAN all the time.
in my mind Im over here (at that time) thinking why not machine off .001 off every vane keeping the injectors on just a tad longer.
again I cant recall which way it goes so ..... I didn't really offer any help, and hope I didn't confuse anyone again.
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 09:40:12 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2015, 09:40:12 PM
In a way the vane has zero to do with the injector opening, it's function is create the ignition pulse that happens when the window opens... EEC then pulses injector approx 180* later for the NEXT power stroke... The pulse width is timed by engine temp, throttle opening, amount of air flow(mass air), or vacuum to MAP(SD) and voltage feed back from o2 sensors... Nothing you can do to the distributor is really going to change this...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: softtouch on March 13, 2015, 01:37:39 AM
Post by: softtouch on March 13, 2015, 01:37:39 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;445987
Yeah the HO order fixed it alright, now are four wires Ford has routed away from each other...
(http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q765/xxAMxx/TurboCoupe50/f150plugwire_zps0n81vhtm.jpg)
Oh shiznit
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 13, 2015, 07:41:49 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 13, 2015, 07:41:49 AM
Quote from: softtouch;445991
Oh shiznit
:giggle:
I'd always known 5 & 6 should be routed away from each other, the sticker on the F150 was first I'd seen about 1 & 3... I suspect that's more of a reminder as most aren't likely to parallel those two anyway...
Still I suspect the quality of the wires play a large part, guessing the newer spiral wound wires don't have this issue...
Title: 5.0 CFI to SEFI Upgrade
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 29, 2015, 12:10:07 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 29, 2015, 12:10:07 PM
Way back in the old days, You wanted to cross the wires. I'm old now so I can't remember why!