Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 5.0thunderbird on April 11, 2013, 07:29:59 PM
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: 5.0thunderbird on April 11, 2013, 07:29:59 PM
Hey everyone currently I am working on the exhaust on my 5.0 thunderbird and I want to know if I should go through the trouble of putting the AirTunes from the exhaust onto the pump again or if I should just trash the pump. Now if I do want to trash the pump I hve two questions. One being there are sensors(or atleast I think they are sensors) in the tubing that connects the pump to the exhaust system when the pump isn't there anymore will the computer know and it won't run? Or if it doesn't effect anything what should I do with the wires? And another question is where should I clamp off the tubes going to the headers? Does it really matter? And how should I go about Closing those up?
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Beau on April 11, 2013, 09:46:29 PM
You can get a smog pump eliminator kit from several places....mine's a Motorsport unit. In fact, I got rid of all the smog plumbing on mine, even the cats. The fun will really begin in a couple weeks when I try to find a place that will pass it for inspection.
If you live in a smog area, keep that in mind...they may look under the hood to see if the right parts are still there.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Haystack on April 11, 2013, 10:09:33 PM
get a short belt, remove pump. cap lines. done deal.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: TOM Renzo on April 12, 2013, 05:19:26 AM
No sensors that will set a SES light but if the system is in good shape keep it. No power loss and not a hard thing to do. If you are in a smog state better keep it. I have personally never disconnected one on a street driven car. On a track car it is a different story. Either way it is your choice. In my view better off keeping it it is illegal to remove it. Your car your choice!
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: 5.0thunderbird on April 12, 2013, 10:39:24 AM
I'm not in a smog state so no worries there. It's just a hassle to work around and I'd rather just have it out of my way.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Haystack on April 12, 2013, 10:42:14 AM
actually, if any emissions component is not functioning and throws a the computer deletes the functions it has control over anyways. if it throwsback code it already doesn't work.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 27, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
I'm still working on my exhaust and hope to finish it Thursday. I'm going with the bbk catless x pipe. I thought I'd search for smog pump info to see if I should just delete this. It looks like I should since I won't have any cats to anyway. If I just pull it off and plug the lines does anyone who has done this know what length belt I'd need? I guess I could leave it for now and oder the eliminator kit? If it doesn't hurt any sensors or fuel economy is there any reason not to delete this?
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 27, 2013, 04:22:10 PM
YEP IT IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!! Just saying
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 27, 2013, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;416113
YEP IT IS AGAINST THE LAW!!!! Just saying
I understand you position but so is removing the Cats. If I won't have Cats is there a mechanical reason that I would benefit from having the smog pump?
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 27, 2013, 07:00:01 PM
No mechanical reason what soever!!
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Beau on May 27, 2013, 07:41:07 PM
Yep, take it off. It's a slight drag on the engine, and if the thing ever seizes up, you'll at least ruin a belt, and possibly other things. With not cats and/or plugged smog plumbing, it's dead weight.
There's a few places around here that will let some vehicles go without cats. If it's some rat-assed ole farm truck with holes in the floor and bedsides big enough for a man to fall through without getting sed, it won't pass. But if it's an obvious older car with mods and doesn't look like a POS then they might let it go. Of course, being friends with one's brother doesn't exactly hurt, either. ;)
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 27, 2013, 09:19:28 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;416117
Yep, take it off. It's a slight drag on the engine, and if the thing ever seizes up, you'll at least ruin a belt, and possibly other things. With not cats and/or plugged smog plumbing, it's dead weight.
There's a few places around here that will let some vehicles go without cats. If it's some rat-assed ole farm truck with holes in the floor and bedsides big enough for a man to fall through without getting sed, it won't pass. But if it's an obvious older car with mods and doesn't look like a POS then they might let it go. Of course, being friends with one's brother doesn't exactly hurt, either. ;)
I think I'll try to take it off Thursday and plug the tubes for now. Any idea what length belt I would need? No big deal to do make my best guess and try a couple if I need to. We don't have emmisions testing where I live so none of this should ever be an issue.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Chooglin on May 27, 2013, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: Pacerized;416124
I think I'll try to take it off Thursday and plug the tubes for now. Any idea what length belt I would need? No big deal to do make my best guess and try a couple if I need to. We don't have emmisions testing where I live so none of this should ever be an issue.
Just cut the old belt and use it as a gauge to get the proper length belt you need.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 28, 2013, 12:49:14 AM
In taking a more detailed look at this tonight I'm wondering where would be the best place to plug it off. The last 302 I worked on was a 69 and that was a long time ago so this is new to me. I've never looked at the heads where the smog pump pipes in. Would I be able to just find a way to plug it off there or would it be best to leave the egr and just stick something in the rubber hose and plug it off with a hose clamp?
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: jcassity on May 28, 2013, 01:36:41 AM
i would short belt the engine and leave all the gear in place.
it is a power hog especially when the pully starts to binding up.
i threw a few belts before i found out my smog pully was binding after the pully shaft started to warm up.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 28, 2013, 05:30:35 AM
No EGR something i never DO!!!
The EGR is one of the most miss understood part on an automotive engine!!
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 28, 2013, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: jcassity;416132
i would short belt the engine and leave all the gear in place.
it is a power hog especially when the pully starts to binding up.
i threw a few belts before i found out my smog pully was binding after the pully shaft started to warm up.
Would you just recomend plugging the hoses off near where they would have went into the pump then? Or do you think it would work to just leave the pump in place with hoses attached and run a short belt that bypasses it?
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 28, 2013, 09:52:57 AM
When I installed the 5.0 in my TC I was very conscientious and installed all the smog system but then somehow it disappeared a little at a time with only the air tube on the back of the heads remaining, needless to say that's about to be history as well...
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 28, 2013, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;416145
When I installed the 5.0 in my TC I was very conscientious and installed all the smog system but then somehow it disappeared a little at a time with only the air tube on the back of the heads remaining, needless to say that's about to be history as well...
So it sounds like you took all the tubing off down the side of the engine. Are you also running without an egr? It would be nice to have everything out of the way down the passenger side of the engine but right now I'm leaning toward just leaving the pump where it sits with hoses attached and bypassing it just to save time. That would leave my options open to remove it later if it was really in my way for something or hook it back up if I ever needed to go back to a system with cats.
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: jcassity on May 28, 2013, 12:10:58 PM
Quote from: Pacerized;416144
Would you just recomend plugging the hoses off near where they would have went into the pump then? Or do you think it would work to just leave the pump in place with hoses attached and run a short belt that bypasses it?
short belt the pullys so that the smog is not turning. in effect, its just sitting there doing noththing.,, the smog operates off of electrical signals that open and close vac line paths.
all this will still function but your smog wont be spining. I suggest leaving all in place and short belting.
however... if you want to omitt all the smog,.... take a look at the vac solenoids behind the pass side strut tower. These get electrical signals and open the path for vac suction on two diapharms mounted in line with your smog pump. When the diaphrams open, they allow a path for the smog pump to suck in exhaust from the passanger side exhaust and pump it back up into the engine,, yes follow those tubes that go to the back of the heads and you'll see what i mean.
its your choice.
if i were to delete the smog,, -un plug the black and white(ish) vac line from smog pump rubber tubing and cap them off. undo the metal line down to the exhaust under the car and shove a bolt in that hole or screw a bolt in that hole. -cap off the pipe that goest to the back of the heads. -leave the electrical solenoids in place with the electrical connector so it doesnt throw an emissions code.
short belt the engine.
now for short belting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, take a look at your tensioner. notice that when you use a pry bar to rotate the tensioner all the way around to where it *STOPS*. Notice what causes the tenstioner to *stop". cut away with a hacksaw about a 1/2'' of that metal thats in the way so the tenstioner has more CCW travel.
the reason i say this is this will allow you a much wider "lenghth" of belt selection. I noticed that the Cost of certain lengths can be out of this world but yet an identical belt that is 1/2'' shorter is like half the price. think it through.........have fun
Title: Smog pump troubles.
Post by: Pacerized on May 28, 2013, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: jcassity;416154
short belt the pullys so that the smog is not turning. in effect, its just sitting there doing noththing.,, the smog operates off of electrical signals that open and close vac line paths.
all this will still function but your smog wont be spining. I suggest leaving all in place and short belting.
however... if you want to omitt all the smog,.... take a look at the vac solenoids behind the pass side strut tower. These get electrical signals and open the path for vac suction on two diapharms mounted in line with your smog pump. When the diaphrams open, they allow a path for the smog pump to suck in exhaust from the passanger side exhaust and pump it back up into the engine,, yes follow those tubes that go to the back of the heads and you'll see what i mean.
its your choice.
if i were to delete the smog,, -un plug the black and white(ish) vac line from smog pump rubber tubing and cap them off. undo the metal line down to the exhaust under the car and shove a bolt in that hole or screw a bolt in that hole. -cap off the pipe that goest to the back of the heads. -leave the electrical solenoids in place with the electrical connector so it doesnt throw an emissions code.
short belt the engine.
now for short belting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, take a look at your tensioner. notice that when you use a pry bar to rotate the tensioner all the way around to where it *STOPS*. Notice what causes the tenstioner to *stop". cut away with a hacksaw about a 1/2'' of that metal thats in the way so the tenstioner has more CCW travel.
the reason i say this is this will allow you a much wider "lenghth" of belt selection. I noticed that the Cost of certain lengths can be out of this world but yet an identical belt that is 1/2'' shorter is like half the price. think it through.........have fun
Great advise thanks. I think I'm going to just leave everything in place and short belt the pump as you suggest. That'll save me a lot of time and still my my options open for later.