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Technical => Audio & Other Aftermarket Electronics => Topic started by: nbzimmer on February 12, 2013, 07:07:34 PM

Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 12, 2013, 07:07:34 PM
For some reason, the CD player I installed about 13 years ago won't turn on.  I haven't looked into it much yet but I am thinking about putting the factory radio back in anyway.  I mean, everything else in my car is stock, so the radio may as well be, too.  Plus, I don't listen to CD's anymore.  Everything I listen to is either on the radio or on the iPod.

So I am thinking about dropping one of these in so I can use the iPod: http://www.amazon.com/Scosche-FM-MOD02-Universal-Modulator-Satellite/dp/B001QBG614/.  I'm sure lots of you guys know about these already, but I had never heard of it before.  It is similar to a py FM transmitter, but it plugs in line with the antenna cable, which SUPPOSEDLY improves the performance.

What I like about it is I can easily keep using my factory equilizer and factory amp.  I'm not expecting miracles from it, but hopefully it will perform well enough to keep pace with a 26-year-old factory audio system.

Just curious if anybody else has any experience with a wired FM Modulator.  Thanks.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: FirstBird on February 13, 2013, 02:58:36 PM
Why not just use the cassette tape/ipod adapters that are for sale for around 5 dollars? Just my opinion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160973785978?hlp=false
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Haystack on February 13, 2013, 09:56:32 PM
X2.

I used one in my crownvic for almost 2 years, and couldn't be happier. I did eventally go to a cd player, but I got one with a line in to use for my phone. Next I think I will go with a bluetooth compatable setup.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 13, 2013, 11:00:47 PM
I've never been real impressed with the cassette adapters, and this FM modulator thing is supposed to produce better sound.  I guess we'll see.  I pulled the aftermarket CD player today.  I had forgotten there is a 10 amp fuse on the unit.  It was blown, but even after I replaced the fuse I couldn't get the radio to do anything.  So I am planning to go ahead and re-install the stock unit. 

I am going to have a little trouble because back in the day when I put the CD player in, I cut all the wires off the 2 connectors that go into the radio and apparently threw the connectors away.  That was stupid.  I can identify all the wires using the EVTM, and I have a couple connectors I pulled off another car at some point, but the wires in those connectors aren't quite the same.  So I am going have to figure out which pin location on the plug should connect to each wire.  Unless I am missing it, the EVTM doesn't have this information.  My shop manual seems to have some information about pin location/order, but it seems to me that the diagram in the EVTM and the diagram in the shop manual aren't lining up right.  I will look at it again later and if it still isn't making sense I will scan the pages and post them up for a second-opinion comparison.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 14, 2013, 09:25:06 AM
I'm working on something like this now. If you look on the thread below you'll see a wiring diagram that someone posted. Perhaps that will help you with your project. I've tried both the cassete adapters and I researched and bought what should be one of the best fm transmitters. I'm not impressed with either of them. I'd be a little concerned with transmitter you're looking at in that it only offers 2 fm frequencys. If you're traveling this might pose a problem but I don't know how this would perform vs a standard transmitter.
I'm currently trying to find a switch with an auxiliary input so I can wire it directly inline between the equalizer and the stereo. So far any switch I've found is far too expensive and wouldn't make sense. If I find something that will work I'll post it.
Charlie
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 14, 2013, 10:51:21 AM
Thanks Pacerized.  I tried to search for similar threads before posting, but I guess I put in the wrong words to catch your thread.  And I didn't browse through the audio section or I would have seen your thread that way.

I have that page (198) from the EVTM.  I have attached the other diagram I am looking at, which comes from the 1987 Shop Manual. 

It basically lines up.  For example, both show the same wires (19, 54, 137, 484, 747) running from one of the connectors.  But what is throwing me off is the second connector.  The EVTM shows wires 806, 807, and 287.  But the Shop Manual shows 806, 807, and 280.  I can't decide if that is just a typo.  It probably is, right?  Any other opinions?  It doesn't even matter as long as the pin location is the same, because that is all I need to know for what I am trying to do.

The other thing thowing me off about the Shop Manual is it shows two 747 wires coming off the radio, one running through a connector (which jives with the EVTM and with the wires in my car) and one running directly out of the radio (which doesn't).  I'm thinking the second one should be labeled 694, which is the red wire that attaches to the stud on the back of the radio.  If that is true, then the whole thing makes sense.  Otherwise, I am confused.

X
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 14, 2013, 11:34:28 AM
So attached is a picture of the connectors I have.  They are oriented the same way they are shown on the Shop Manual page attached to my previous post.  The top one should be almost good to go.  All I have to do is move that red wire down one slot and connect it to the O/LB (747) wire in my car.

Starting from the top, the Shop Manual says the second connector should be:

empty
BK/W (280 in the Shop Manual, 287 in the EVTM)
PK/LG (807)
empty
empty
empty
PK/LB (806)
empty

All the wires in the second connector are small, and the BK/W common wire in my car is a slightly heavier gauge, so I may have to totally rewire one of those metal connectors for that one, but after doing that and connecting the red wire in my car (not the one pictured in the connector) to the rear stud on the radio I should be good to go, right?  Can anybody verify that I am reading the diagram correctly?X
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 14, 2013, 12:05:59 PM
I have my factory set up apart right now. Would it help if I posted a picture of the factory plug wires?
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 14, 2013, 12:25:45 PM
Quote from: Pacerized;409329
I have my factory set up apart right now. Would it help if I posted a picture of the factory plug wires?

 
Oh man, would you mind?  That is EXACTLY what I need.  Thanks!
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on February 14, 2013, 12:35:22 PM
Quote from: nbzimmer;409197
For some reason, the CD player I installed about 13 years ago won't turn on.  I haven't looked into it much yet but I am thinking about putting the factory radio back in anyway.  I mean, everything else in my car is stock, so the radio may as well be, too.  Plus, I don't listen to CD's anymore.  Everything I listen to is either on the radio or on the iPod.

So I am thinking about dropping one of these in so I can use the iPod: http://www.amazon.com/Scosche-FM-MOD02-Universal-Modulator-Satellite/dp/B001QBG614/.  I'm sure lots of you guys know about these already, but I had never heard of it before.  It is similar to a py FM transmitter, but it plugs in line with the antenna cable, which SUPPOSEDLY improves the performance.

What I like about it is I can easily keep using my factory equilizer and factory amp.  I'm not expecting miracles from it, but hopefully it will perform well enough to keep pace with a 26-year-old factory audio system.

Just curious if anybody else has any experience with a wired FM Modulator.  Thanks.

Go for it.  Ford markets this kit through it's dealer parts departments and accessory catalogs as "triptunes"  I've installed somewhere like a dozen of them and they really do work very well.  The difference between this and other modulators is that this is hardwired into the antenna and it blocks the set frequency so you don't have to compete.  This will work better for you than Pacerized's mod is going to work for him.  There's no reason to reinvent the wheel here. just pop it into the back of the deck, plug the antenna into the unit, wire it to power and ground with the cigar lighter and fish the remote switch/port into the console or glove box and peel and stick it to the side.  tune to the set frq and rock out.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 14, 2013, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;409333
Go for it.  Ford markets this kit through it's dealer parts departments and accessory catalogs as "triptunes"  I've installed somewhere like a dozen of them and they really do work very well.  The difference between this and other modulators is that this is hardwired into the antenna and it blocks the set frequency so you don't have to compete.  This will work better for you than Pacerized's mod is going to work for him.  There's no reason to reinvent the wheel here. just pop it into the back of the deck, plug the antenna into the unit, wire it to power and ground with the cigar lighter and fish the remote switch/port into the console or glove box and peel and stick it to the side.  tune to the set frq and rock out.

Thanks.  It looks like the Ford product costs about twice as much as the Scosche version I ordered, but if there is a difference in quality it probably would have been worth the extra $20.  I guess we will see how this one performs.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on February 14, 2013, 01:16:30 PM
There will be no difference.  Where do you think Ford gets them from?  It's rebranded, repackaged, sold to the dealer for around $35 and marked up so the dealer can make a little money.  The more times you sell something as new, the more it inevitably costs in the end.  Good find on Amazon.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Masejoer on February 14, 2013, 01:31:00 PM
I had a FM modulator for awhile and it was junk. I actually found a overpowered (illegal) wireless unit that worked much better. With both though, I think the major problem is that FM has a very limited frequency response. Everything sounds led compared to a direct line in. For me being in vehicles that I don't own that have no inputs, FM works fine, but it can't compete with line in any way. For things like talk shows/podcasts, FM is fine.

I think there was a thread on here of someone modifying the stock radio to have a line in.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 14, 2013, 02:09:28 PM
Quote from: Seek;409340
I had a FM modulator for awhile and it was junk. I actually found a overpowered (illegal) wireless unit that worked much better. With both though, I think the major problem is that FM has a very limited frequency response. Everything sounds led compared to a direct line in. For me being in vehicles that I don't own that have no inputs, FM works fine, but it can't compete with line in any way. For things like talk shows/podcasts, FM is fine.

I think there was a thread on here of someone modifying the stock radio to have a line in.

That's me but I still haven't found a switch for a reasonable price. If I can find one for $20-$30 I'm going to do it but if I have to spend over $100 I might as well just buy a new stereo. I'm waiting to here back from a professional audio guy that I use for my business who says he can get a switch at a reasonable cost. It would seem like a direct feed would give a better sound quality to me. I have the fm transmitter in my Durango, the cassette adapter in my Cougar and a new jeep with the aux. input on the stereo. The sound quality in the jeep is far superior, so I was hoping a direct line into the factory Cougar system would be as well. I should no if this is possible by the end of the week. If not, I'll be waiting to see what nbzimmer thinks of his system and may go that route. I'll post some plug pictures later today.
Charlie
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 14, 2013, 02:58:18 PM
I'll attempt to post a picture of the eq plug below. The wiring on the stereo side of the plug matches this one in color. If you need the picture of the stereo plug let me know, I don't have the stereo out but it would just be 4 screws at this point, so no big deal.
The factory plug is considerably different the the picture you posted which I assume is the aftermarket cd plug adapted to your wiring.
The factory plug is 2 tier with 6 pin slots in both the top and bottome tiers and is color coded as follows from left to right as viewed from back of plug.
I think the orange/light blue is the power. The pink/light blue, pink/light green and black/white are speaker wires.

Top tier of plug
pink/light blue, black/white, empty slot, green, blue/black, and a black jumper wire contecting slot 2 to slot 6 on the plug which I think is the common speaker wire.
bottom tier of plug
pink/light green, empty, orange/light blue, light blue/red, white/red, purple/white.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Masejoer on February 14, 2013, 03:39:38 PM
Quote from: Pacerized;409344
That's me but I still haven't found a switch for a reasonable price.

No, I think there was someone that soldered some rca wires into the inside of a factory radio, or perhaps it was into the factory EQ. This was years ago.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 15, 2013, 10:42:56 AM
Quote from: Pacerized;409345
I'll attempt to post a picture of the eq plug below. The wiring on the stereo side of the plug matches this one in color. If you need the picture of the stereo plug let me know, I don't have the stereo out but it would just be 4 screws at this point, so no big deal.
The factory plug is considerably different the the picture you posted which I assume is the aftermarket cd plug adapted to your wiring.
The factory plug is 2 tier with 6 pin slots in both the top and bottome tiers and is color coded as follows from left to right as viewed from back of plug.
I think the orange/light blue is the power. The pink/light blue, pink/light green and black/white are speaker wires.

Top tier of plug
pink/light blue, black/white, empty slot, green, blue/black, and a black jumper wire contecting slot 2 to slot 6 on the plug which I think is the common speaker wire.
bottom tier of plug
pink/light green, empty, orange/light blue, light blue/red, white/red, purple/white.

Thanks for the picture.  Unfortunately, it isn't what I need.  My equalizer plug is still intact.  It is the two plugs that run into the radio that I mutilated back in the day.  If you don't mind loosening the radio bolts to access those, I would appreciate it.  But don't put yourself out.  The shop manual diagram SHOULD help me make sure I get all the wires into the correct plug locations.

The wired modulator is supposed to show up today, and if I can get the radio plugs correct I should have it in sometime this weekend.  After I get the chance to try it out for a few days I will let you know how it seems to be performing.  I have a little road trip coming up on Tuesday, so hopefully I can get this and the sunroof gasket in before then.  It would make the trip more enjoyable for sure.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 15, 2013, 10:48:37 AM
Quote from: Seek;409348
No, I think there was someone that soldered some rca wires into the inside of a factory radio, or perhaps it was into the factory EQ. This was years ago.

When I was searching the board about my issue I found a post related to this, but in the one I saw, the guy wasn't doing the work himself, he had found someone on Ebay who was selling factory radios that he had modified to include a line-in wired directly inside the radio.  If anyone is interested and can't locate the thread easily, I can help hunt it down.  There were a couple links to Ebay that were expired, but they still help you find the seller.  He has a couple radios posted now, but I don't think they were exact fits for our cars.  Maybe he'd be willing to do it for you if you sent in your radio.

I also found a couple other websites that explain generally how to do this yourself.  It is probably beyond my ability since it looked like it requires soldering on a circuitboard, but that could be an option if you have some knowhow in that area.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Masejoer on February 15, 2013, 12:05:31 PM
Quote from: nbzimmer;409403
When I was searching the board about my issue I found a post related to this, but in the one I saw, the guy wasn't doing the work himself, he had found someone on Ebay who was selling factory radios that he had modified to include a line-in wired directly inside the radio.  If anyone is interested and can't locate the thread easily, I can help hunt it down.  There were a couple links to Ebay that were expired, but they still help you find the seller.  He has a couple radios posted now, but I don't think they were exact fits for our cars.  Maybe he'd be willing to do it for you if you sent in your radio.

I also found a couple other websites that explain generally how to do this yourself.  It is probably beyond my ability since it looked like it requires soldering on a circuitboard, but that could be an option if you have some knowhow in that area.

I don't think it was any of that either. Someone WAS soldering directly to something inside though. The thing is, these parts are so old that even soldering to a PCB is like soldering wires together. The electronics in these things are ancient and huge. Whoever it was, they found where the signal went and either bypassed it completely, or installed a switch for choosing between radio and "aux". I'm sure I could figure it out if I had a couple spare connectors to test with. I have the radios and EQs in a bin. Premium sound is a bit complicated, but I think it'd still be fairly simple to pinpoint with the tools I have now days, and the old PCBs that are easy to follow.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 17, 2013, 12:24:20 AM
I hope this helps. The first picture is of plugs while attached. The second shows the underside of the plugs. I assume you're just trying to get the wiring sequence in order.
I left my stereo out for now as I'm still waiting to hear about the switch so if you need anything else let me know.
Charlie
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 17, 2013, 11:28:08 AM
Wiring order on 3 wire plug from left to right as viewed from top of plug.
black/white
pink/green
pink/blue

5 wire plug
orange/blue
orange/black
blue/black
yellow/black
green/yellow

I hope your moonroof gasket project goes quicker then mine did. A long magnetic screw driver will help and you'll have to have a small pry bar to gently lift the guide up once the roof is in vent position in order to get to one of the screws.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 17, 2013, 10:31:12 PM
Thanks man.  That picture helped a lot.  I had the 3 wires on the plug that goes to the amplifier exactly backwards.

I had to spend most of my weekend putting in flooring in our kitchen, but I was able to get outside long enough to try everything out.  Kind of fun to get the old factory radio back in there after almost 15 years!  Until I figure out how I want to arrange everything I just spliced an old cigarette lighter plug into the modulator wires for power.

As far as audio quality, my first impression is similar to what I've heard from others.  It is better than an FM transmitter, maybe slightly better than some radio stations, but not as good as a cd player.  I think it will do the job for what I want, but if you have high expectations it might disappoint.  As I keep using it I will update if anything changes.

By the way, this FM modulator is also available from Walmart online for the same price.  It has free shipping from site-to-store (at least at my store).

I didn't even get to start on the sunroof.  Another job for for another day . . . . .
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 17, 2013, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;409337
There will be no difference.  Where do you think Ford gets them from?  It's rebranded, repackaged, sold to the dealer for around $35 and marked up so the dealer can make a little money.  The more times you sell something as new, the more it inevitably costs in the end.  Good find on Amazon.

 
You are so right.  This thing is EXACTLY like the Ford one in the link you sent in every tiny detail.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 18, 2013, 02:39:01 PM
Quote from: nbzimmer;409578
Thanks man.  That picture helped a lot.  I had the 3 wires on the plug that goes to the amplifier exactly backwards.

I had to spend most of my weekend putting in flooring in our kitchen, but I was able to get outside long enough to try everything out.  Kind of fun to get the old factory radio back in there after almost 15 years!  Until I figure out how I want to arrange everything I just spliced an old cigarette lighter plug into the modulator wires for power.

As far as audio quality, my first impression is similar to what I've heard from others.  It is better than an FM transmitter, maybe slightly better than some radio stations, but not as good as a cd player.  I think it will do the job for what I want, but if you have high expectations it might disappoint.  As I keep using it I will update if anything changes.

By the way, this FM modulator is also available from Walmart online for the same price.  It has free shipping from site-to-store (at least at my store).

I didn't even get to start on the sunroof.  Another job for for another day . . . . .

I forgot to mention that the actual sound coming out of the speakers sounds pretty good, given the age of the system.  Where you might notice something the most is during the silence between songs, especially if you are sitting at idle.  There is a slight hiss in the background at times.  But if you are moving, I don't think you would hear it.
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: Pacerized on February 23, 2013, 11:29:06 PM
So far I've still had no luck in finding an affordable switch to make a direct line to the system. I found one for $180 in which case I'd obviously just by a new stereo first and I found the perfect one if I had a cd player but it won't tap into the tape player. The audio guy we use at my company thought he could get an inexpensive switch but if he doesn't come up with something by the beginning of the week I think I'm going to order the same transmitter you have. Could you give me an update on what you think after getting to try the transmitter while driving?
Thanks: Charlie
Title: re-installing factory radio without original connectors
Post by: nbzimmer on February 24, 2013, 10:25:47 PM
Sure.  I had a couple strikes against me from the start because I didn't get the new moonroof liner in, so I had to turn the volume up especially loud which made the speakers buzz a little from time to time.  Also, my factory radio had been sitting in a box for a decade, and it shows.  It is producing static when changing the volume and I probably need to get in there with some electric cleaner.  So it is hard to know sometimes which noises might be coming from the inline modulator and which might be caused by other things.  Plus, this stuff is just a matter of opinion to some extent.

Anyway, this thing is definitely not a magic bullet.  It does not send crystal clear sound from your mp3 player to the speakers.  The sound isn't bad, but it isn't top notch.  You will notice a little background hum from time to time and a little sound degradation.  And I thought that regular radio reception was possibly affected a little, even when the modulator is turned off.  This was more true for city driving than for out on the highway.

Overall I'm still happy with the purchase, but if I had to take a guess, my hunch is that you might not be satisfied with it.  It is not the same quality as a true line in.  If I had spent more on it I might be dissatisfied, but in my opinion it was still worth the money and it does what I want it to do, at least for the time being.

Hope that helps.  If I can tell you anything more about it, let me know.