This is something I never really paid any attention to, but, do Fox Stang subframe connectors fit our cars, or would ours be longer?
No, ours are longer, and fit the contour of the floorpan differently. The best ones actually go through the floors of our cars, as the footwells and the low spots under the seats are lower than the subframes. That's why Chuck and gumby and a few others have ran straight pieces of stock through the pans, rather than bending them, which decreases strength.
Ask yourself this: "am I comfortable cutting some holes in my floorboards, but increasing the strength of my car when it's all finished?"
I'd answer yes, but for one thing, I don't have a welder, nor the skill to use it to seal things up when done.
Jerry could answer your question a lot better than I could, and in more detail, but the basically the gist of it. :D
Would be worth it to do them if you plan on any kinda racing or a stouter ride
Iv raced cars that have had permanent damage without sfc
Body panels do not like to line up once tweeked
I am not cutting my floors. I'll just get the rectangle steel tubing, and go that route.
get yourself 10' of 1x2, and fire up that welder you inherited...
Vinnie, make up a set like Bodyman did for his Terminator swap. Simple & easy.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?33763-My-85-TBird/page4
(http://"http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?33763-My-85-TBird")
Yea those are nice
Considering how much I've cut into my car I don't know why but couldn't get myself to cut my floor pans either. If I didn't have a bender I would have just purchased the global west units. The 1 x 2 rectangular tube should work well, the cougar in my avatar has 2" square tube under it. It takes a fairly low profile floor jack to get under it, but other than that seems fine.
What we do is cut the floor and tie the frame in to the upper trailing arms as they are the weak spot . Just me i am nuts. But we found that under car connectors do not do very much unless they are beefy and then they hang down to much. So installing them through the floor makes the best setup in my opinion. Through the floor is best but you need to do it on a frame machine. So this is not an option for most. JR does this on the frame machine to make sure things are lined up correctly. And make sure the spark machine has a full spool of wire. Just saying.
The outside frame bars are cool as long as they do not have sharp bends. The ones in the post are cool. But the weak spot is the upper control arms. Battle boxes work very good also.
Body Man do you install those bars on a lift or on the frame machine. Just curious. Jr claims doing it on the lift is not as good as on the machine. Can you confirm Thanks.
:flame:
The guy painting my car is going to weld in the connectors. One step closer to awesomeness.
Yes, this was an old thread.
What did you end up doing for subframes? Under the car or through the floor?
I've had 1"x2" square subframe connectors under my Thunderbird for several years. They did stiffen up the car noticeably after they were installed.
They are going to go under the car. No way am I cutting up the floors. Would that be the BEST way....probably, but, I think under the car will make a noticeable difference, and, it's not a road course car, so, I think the 1x2 under the car connecting the subframes will do fine.
Bad ass pics when there done :)
Many pics. I promise. The Sport will look like a totally different car.
Vinnie, what happened to the pics you promised, im looking to setup some sort of SFC, do you like what you gained with your under car? im using my cat for drag, not autox.....
I have the Global West units under my 83 and it was a night and day difference. I drove it like that for years and then installed the Griggs uppers (through floor) and welded up the lower and upper control arm mounts. The car chassis is so stiff I can jack up one corner and the tires on the same side of the cars as the jack and the one across from it will all come off the floor with only the one diagonally across from it on the ground. If you jack up one corner where that tire comes off the ground the doors will open and close with zero issues.
The other nice thing is the ride quality improved. So no matter what method or brand of SFC you use (bought or garage fabricated) it is one of the best mods you can make on these cars.
Darren
Personally through the floor is the only way to do it. Other than that my thoughts are battle boxes are a much better option. have a great day guys.
Tom, not sure how I didn't see this before. My thoughts on doing the install on the frame machine is that it makes it convenient but is not mandatory. Some set up is needed though, as long as the car is supported from the pinch weld on the rocker panels and is level front to back and side to side there should be no problems, nothing 4 jack stands and some shims can't do for you. Is a frame machine needed to keep everything lined up? I don't think so, just not enough metal being removed to structurally weaken the chassis. I have seen more metal, and more structural at that, removed and replaced for rust repairs without a thought of a frame machine.
I leveled mine up on the lift and welded them in.
Jr is hell bent on the frame machine to do things like this. He tells me that a lot of shops for example will cut off both quarters at the same time and that a NO NO. I am not a body guy but listen to JR. years back i would level the car on stands and spark away. Jr claims that is not the preferred way as gaps can increase and so on and so forth. I always used to do them level absent of a frame machine in the old days. thanks and have a great day
I took my Bird to a body shop and had them put it on a frame machine before the subframe connectors were installed. It was out by a little bit but not much and they got it squared up. My buddy welded in the Global West units at his exhaust shop on the drive on lift so the chassis was loaded when they were welded in. The Griggs uppers were welded in a few years later but with the lowers in place cutting the floor pan to get them installed was not something I was worried about. You are not actually cutting into the front or rear subframes but you are removing metal that has load on it. Its not a huge deal as the amount of metal you remove to do the uppers is minimal but when it comes to a unibody car everyone freaks out and for the most part rightfully so.
I would strongly recommend that a car be put on a frame machine and at least checked as these cars are older and frankly were not built to the tightest standards. Anyone who has turned wrenches on a few of the Fox cars (Birds, Cougars, Mustangs, Marks) will tell you that the tolerances were all over the place.
Darren
Aerocoupe, you said youve got the Global west sfc's? These?
http://www.globalwest.net/1980-88thunderbird.html
Yup. You can see them here in this thread starting on Post #9:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?31210
Look a the top of the second picture in that post and you will see some rectangles that are painted black, these are the through floor Griggs upper subframes. Follow the front subframe on the car and you will see black spray paint where the uppers are welded into the channel of the front subframes.
Darren
NICE! cuz I have noticed that sometimes when I put my car on jack stands, the doors kinda "pop" open
One last question here, Can i weld in the SFC's with the car on jackstands? Cuz i dont wanna weld in the connectors with the two subframes "distorted" ya know? Maybe have it done on a drive-up rack so that the weight of car is still on the wheels
Sorry for the long time to respond. We put my car up on jack stands to weld them in as follows: two under the rear end as far outboard as possible and two under the rotor hats on the front of the car. This was in an attempt to load the suspension as closely to the car sitting on the ground as we could. I put two more jack stands under the K-Member but not supporting any load (used shims) just in case we had an issue with the ones under the rotor hats. We have done several cars this way and no issues at all.
Darren
ohhhh, okay. That makes a lot of sense! Thanks