Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 25, 2012, 01:44:39 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 25, 2012, 01:44:39 AM
Got my son an explorer upper and lower,
he already has the larger TB, think its 65mm,
is it really worth it to put this on his car now,, will there be any "feel" to the add on?
he's got dual 2 1/2'' exhaust but stock headers,
88bird 5.0
thoughts?
he already has the larger TB, think its 65mm,
is it really worth it to put this on his car now,, will there be any "feel" to the add on?
he's got dual 2 1/2'' exhaust but stock headers,
88bird 5.0
thoughts?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: STANG8U on December 25, 2012, 02:12:45 AM
Post by: STANG8U on December 25, 2012, 02:12:45 AM
You need a hci combo to feel any thing
A good cheap combo
Gt40 heads intake and a tfi stage one cam with 1.6 or 1.7 work good to Tfi sells a good valve spring kit
This is a simple and proven build
A good cheap combo
Gt40 heads intake and a tfi stage one cam with 1.6 or 1.7 work good to Tfi sells a good valve spring kit
This is a simple and proven build
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: beast50 on December 25, 2012, 02:14:48 AM
Post by: beast50 on December 25, 2012, 02:14:48 AM
Hi Scott, is this on a standard output or HO 5.0l? I would think if you have the standard output the next bottleneck will be the e6 heads then the 14lb injectors. I think the cam grind is close enough with the SO to the Explorer motor but I could be wrong. I do not think the Explorer intake would be much help to these motors.
If its the HO, I am doing the same on mine and hope to achieve a payoff of positive results. I am also debating using the gt40p heads I have set aside or keeping the e7 heads I had worked over with the bigger gt40 valves. I am also gonna try to use the updated Bosch 19lb'ers that came with my intake.
Good luck with the results! Take care and Merry Christmas!!
Tim
If its the HO, I am doing the same on mine and hope to achieve a payoff of positive results. I am also debating using the gt40p heads I have set aside or keeping the e7 heads I had worked over with the bigger gt40 valves. I am also gonna try to use the updated Bosch 19lb'ers that came with my intake.
Good luck with the results! Take care and Merry Christmas!!
Tim
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: Beau on December 25, 2012, 12:09:45 PM
Post by: Beau on December 25, 2012, 12:09:45 PM
I agree..if it's an SO, may as well pull the heads and swap on the GT40\P's if you've got 'em, as well as an HO cam or better, and of course the Exploiter intake set.
I'd probably wait till I had the cam AND heads first...no sense in pulling the intakes twice.
I agree with the TFS 1 cam too, it's been recommended by too many folks who have ran it...it works, makes great power, and of course with 1.6 or 1.7 rockers...
There was a guy who took a low mile Explorer engine, threw in a TFS1 cam, added headers and of course all the Fox parts (pan, accessories, distributor) and left the rest of the engine stock, save the cam, and claimed to have gotten 300 horse at the hides....true or not, I can't say, but there's a lot of room to grow in the '40 heads and the Explorer intake.
I'd probably wait till I had the cam AND heads first...no sense in pulling the intakes twice.
I agree with the TFS 1 cam too, it's been recommended by too many folks who have ran it...it works, makes great power, and of course with 1.6 or 1.7 rockers...
There was a guy who took a low mile Explorer engine, threw in a TFS1 cam, added headers and of course all the Fox parts (pan, accessories, distributor) and left the rest of the engine stock, save the cam, and claimed to have gotten 300 horse at the hides....true or not, I can't say, but there's a lot of room to grow in the '40 heads and the Explorer intake.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: vinnietbird on December 25, 2012, 01:28:44 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on December 25, 2012, 01:28:44 PM
I think even with an SO engine, the intake will make a difference.
As far as E-6 heads go, yes, they are at the bottom of the food chain, BUT, with my '87 Mark VII engine (E-6 heads and flat top forged pistons), with the H.O cam, it would move quick. Intake gaskets cost $20 after taxes. Swap on the intake and enjoy it. You will need a throttle body spacer for the 65mm t-body though. Take the hour or so to swap them. IF you don't feel a big difference, you're out $20. If you do feel the difference, which I think you will, even better. No, it won't be a freight train pulling, but, still fun and it HAS to better than that tiny little stock t-body and tiny little intake opening for the engine to breathe, even if it is an SO engine. If it sucks, I'll pay for half the intake gasket costs. Now, go swap them.
I have the TFS-1 cam, and P heads, blah, blah, blah. But even when I had the H.O cam, the car was a blast. I do have thoughts of swapping that cam back into the car at times. With the P heads, 1.7 roller rockers, and the rest, I think the low end pull of the H.O cam is still a great joy. No issues, good gas mileage, good power, and fun.
As far as E-6 heads go, yes, they are at the bottom of the food chain, BUT, with my '87 Mark VII engine (E-6 heads and flat top forged pistons), with the H.O cam, it would move quick. Intake gaskets cost $20 after taxes. Swap on the intake and enjoy it. You will need a throttle body spacer for the 65mm t-body though. Take the hour or so to swap them. IF you don't feel a big difference, you're out $20. If you do feel the difference, which I think you will, even better. No, it won't be a freight train pulling, but, still fun and it HAS to better than that tiny little stock t-body and tiny little intake opening for the engine to breathe, even if it is an SO engine. If it sucks, I'll pay for half the intake gasket costs. Now, go swap them.
I have the TFS-1 cam, and P heads, blah, blah, blah. But even when I had the H.O cam, the car was a blast. I do have thoughts of swapping that cam back into the car at times. With the P heads, 1.7 roller rockers, and the rest, I think the low end pull of the H.O cam is still a great joy. No issues, good gas mileage, good power, and fun.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: Beau on December 25, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Post by: Beau on December 25, 2012, 02:48:39 PM
Hard to beat an HO cam. Thank god Ford's bean counters were kept away from it, lol
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: vinnietbird on December 25, 2012, 04:34:46 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on December 25, 2012, 04:34:46 PM
I agree. I believe the H.O cam is very underestimated.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: beast50 on December 25, 2012, 11:26:48 PM
Post by: beast50 on December 25, 2012, 11:26:48 PM
Its good to know the HO cam is a keeper with the gt40 goodies. I cant wait to see the difference in my rig. This is good encouragement to keep plugging along on getting my car roadworthy for 2013!
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 12:12:57 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 12:12:57 AM
If you don't want to swap the heads I would at least stick a HO cam and 19lb injectors on with the GT40 intake. That would make a noticeable difference.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 12:36:53 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 12:36:53 AM
hey guys,
got the lower half off , dizzy ect ect............
to swap in the ACT , what tap size is that bugger? need to drill the lower intake for the ACT and figured i would ask.
doing a small parts run in the morning.
also, car has the larger TB, 65mm i think, swapped that on a while back.
he has gray top injectors,, 14lb i think,,
cant do orange tops yet can i ??????? think they are 19lb???
sorry , in a rush for lots of stuff going on now like everyone.
posting pics of progress on next post
got the lower half off , dizzy ect ect............
to swap in the ACT , what tap size is that bugger? need to drill the lower intake for the ACT and figured i would ask.
doing a small parts run in the morning.
also, car has the larger TB, 65mm i think, swapped that on a while back.
he has gray top injectors,, 14lb i think,,
cant do orange tops yet can i ??????? think they are 19lb???
sorry , in a rush for lots of stuff going on now like everyone.
posting pics of progress on next post
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 12:45:44 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 12:45:44 AM
You need a 9/16" drill bit and a 3/8" NPT tap for the ACT sensor hole. You'll also need to tap a hole for the EGR coolant return line on the rear of the intake. There is a circular area molded in where you can drill and tap for a pipe fitting with a nipple that fits the EGR coolant hose.
You can't swap in 19lb injectors without a HO computer. If you run the 19lb injectors (orange tops) with the stock Thunderbird computer, which is set up for 14lb injectors, the car will run too rich and not well at all.
You can't swap in 19lb injectors without a HO computer. If you run the 19lb injectors (orange tops) with the stock Thunderbird computer, which is set up for 14lb injectors, the car will run too rich and not well at all.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 12:47:43 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 12:47:43 AM
Here is the pic of Mason cleaning up after pulling the top parts off the engine.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
I think we are shy heads and harness mods, we have the HO EEC from an 86 MKVII, plus any wiring mods needed.
thanks for the heads up on the egr coolant lines,, i am wondering if its not even worth hooking those up, i really dont see the point in using egr cooling ports.
Less holes to pop in the intake.
BTW, the intake measures .012 on the welded edge,, gonna fix that tomorrow as well, its pretty thick, thought it was much thinner than that
thoughts?
thanks for the heads up on the egr coolant lines,, i am wondering if its not even worth hooking those up, i really dont see the point in using egr cooling ports.
Less holes to pop in the intake.
BTW, the intake measures .012 on the welded edge,, gonna fix that tomorrow as well, its pretty thick, thought it was much thinner than that
thoughts?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:02:12 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:02:12 AM
3/8'' tap?????????? that ACT is wayyy larger than 3/8'' diameter????????
is that because the NPT is tappered?
is that because the NPT is tappered?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 01:13:42 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 01:13:42 AM
Quote from: jcassity;405406
3/8'' tap?????????? that ACT is wayyy larger than 3/8'' diameter????????
You need to use a 3/8" NPT (National Pipe Thread) tap. It's bigger than a regular 3/8" tap.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 01:16:10 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: jcassity;405405
I think we are shy heads and harness mods, we have the HO EEC from an 86 MKVII, plus any wiring mods needed.
thanks for the heads up on the egr coolant lines,, i am wondering if its not even worth hooking those up, i really dont see the point in using egr cooling ports.
Less holes to pop in the intake.
BTW, the intake measures .012 on the welded edge,, gonna fix that tomorrow as well, its pretty thick, thought it was much thinner than that
thoughts?
The HO EEC will make the 19lb injectors work but without the HO cam the firing order will be off. You need at least the HO cam and HO EEC to make the 19lb injectors work right.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:26:35 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 26, 2012, 01:26:35 AM
your thoughts on deleteting the egr cooling lines, heard lots of people say they block them off.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: beast50 on December 26, 2012, 05:58:53 AM
Post by: beast50 on December 26, 2012, 05:58:53 AM
Quote from: jcassity;405411
your thoughts on deleteting the egr cooling lines, heard lots of people say they block them off.
Thats a good question, I am wondering the same thing. Are you deleting the EGR altogether or hooking it up and just not using the cooling lines through the throttle body spacer?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: vinnietbird on December 26, 2012, 06:57:57 AM
Post by: vinnietbird on December 26, 2012, 06:57:57 AM
My EGR water lines have been closed for years. I cut the nipple off of the water pipes and welded it shut. Never used the water line through the spacer. Never had an issue.
As far as harness mods, for a speed density setup, H.O cam, 19# injectors, etc...no mods, just swap the computer, injectors and cam. install the plug wires with the 351W firing order, in reverse rotation, and good to go. A days job.
If you already have the parts, now is the time with the intake off. You're really only adding a few short hours of labor to what you're doing.
As far as harness mods, for a speed density setup, H.O cam, 19# injectors, etc...no mods, just swap the computer, injectors and cam. install the plug wires with the 351W firing order, in reverse rotation, and good to go. A days job.
If you already have the parts, now is the time with the intake off. You're really only adding a few short hours of labor to what you're doing.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: flylear45 on December 26, 2012, 08:47:33 AM
Post by: flylear45 on December 26, 2012, 08:47:33 AM
Quote from: jcassity;405411
your thoughts on deleteting the egr cooling lines, heard lots of people say they block them off.
A functioning EGR makes the car run better IMHO. I've had cars rattle on light acceleration with a stock computer when they weren't working right. Every engine is a little different, though.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: Beau on December 26, 2012, 01:08:51 PM
Post by: Beau on December 26, 2012, 01:08:51 PM
Scott...do you guys need an HO cam? I've got a couple three here, if you want one, I'll sell it.
PM me and I'll give my cell number to arrange the details :)
If you also need the 19lb injectors, I've a set of those too. Mustang style, so they'll plug into his harness with no modding.
Vinnie's right...to convert from SO to HO and stay SPEED DENSITY, the only mods are mechanical, no harness work at all.
To go Mass Air involves a different EEC and of course the wires from the meter to the EEC. Easy peezy.
To go from SO to HO, you'll need the EEC, HO cam, and the orange injectors. Those parts you either have to use all three together, or none at all, else your engine won't run well, as mentioned. But if you're swapping heads and intakes, may as well slap in the HO cam while you're there now...
PM me and I'll give my cell number to arrange the details :)
If you also need the 19lb injectors, I've a set of those too. Mustang style, so they'll plug into his harness with no modding.
Vinnie's right...to convert from SO to HO and stay SPEED DENSITY, the only mods are mechanical, no harness work at all.
To go Mass Air involves a different EEC and of course the wires from the meter to the EEC. Easy peezy.
To go from SO to HO, you'll need the EEC, HO cam, and the orange injectors. Those parts you either have to use all three together, or none at all, else your engine won't run well, as mentioned. But if you're swapping heads and intakes, may as well slap in the HO cam while you're there now...
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: turbotrav on December 26, 2012, 02:44:52 PM
Post by: turbotrav on December 26, 2012, 02:44:52 PM
Bigger project.....hmm. Always start small then get big.
Travis
Travis
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 03:10:40 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 26, 2012, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: jcassity;405411
your thoughts on deleteting the egr cooling lines, heard lots of people say they block them off.
You could block off the coolant lines. The 93 Mustang Cobra style GT40 intake doesn't use EGR coolant lines. Keep the EGR though.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 27, 2012, 12:54:18 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 27, 2012, 12:54:18 AM
Yes sir, i sure could use a couple cams actually, one for my oldest boy and one for my youngest, but Ill let mason buy it,,LOL,, yeah right , on a college budget.
got the mod done, all went well.
Dizzy was really cooperative, dropped right in, i guess we dialed it in just perfect and the oil pump shaft didnt decide to f with us.
here are some pics.
could not convince him to do the Tstat mod, i did pull the injector screens , we ended up making up a gasket plus double gasket on the upper intake to sorta shim it due to a repair that was done .
all is well, son is a happy camper.
thanks thunderjet302 for making this some good quality time with my son, he really really worked for it.
another interesting thing, the darn car didnt get any air that we could tell, started to heat right up and put out good heat,, the boy is lucky in many aspects of all the things we messed with.
we did have one injector pentil that was shattered so we replaced that but all in all, things went pretty smooth right down to tapping the ATC.
got the mod done, all went well.
Dizzy was really cooperative, dropped right in, i guess we dialed it in just perfect and the oil pump shaft didnt decide to f with us.
here are some pics.
could not convince him to do the Tstat mod, i did pull the injector screens , we ended up making up a gasket plus double gasket on the upper intake to sorta shim it due to a repair that was done .
all is well, son is a happy camper.
thanks thunderjet302 for making this some good quality time with my son, he really really worked for it.
another interesting thing, the darn car didnt get any air that we could tell, started to heat right up and put out good heat,, the boy is lucky in many aspects of all the things we messed with.
we did have one injector pentil that was shattered so we replaced that but all in all, things went pretty smooth right down to tapping the ATC.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 27, 2012, 12:56:34 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 27, 2012, 12:56:34 AM
so am i retarded or when did they "STOP" doing full across the lower intake coolant runners along the rear?
the port goes across the front but not the rear... whats up with that?
the port goes across the front but not the rear... whats up with that?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 27, 2012, 09:58:20 AM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 27, 2012, 09:58:20 AM
Quote from: jcassity;405488
so am i retarded or when did they "STOP" doing full across the lower intake coolant runners along the rear?
the port goes across the front but not the rear... whats up with that?
I think it's like that so water is forced to go through the thermostat. Isn't the stock SO/HO intake the same way?
I'm glad you had fun with the swap. I thought you guys were going to repaint the intake before you installed it. The Ford blue kinda sticks out more in your son's cars engine bay than it does in mine ;).
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: beast50 on December 27, 2012, 07:52:54 PM
Post by: beast50 on December 27, 2012, 07:52:54 PM
Looks good! How does it run?
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 12:42:56 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 12:42:56 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;405501
I think it's like that so water is forced to go through the thermostat. Isn't the stock SO/HO intake the same way?
I'm glad you had fun with the swap. I thought you guys were going to repaint the intake before you installed it. The Ford blue kinda sticks out more in your son's cars engine bay than it does in mine ;).
son couldnt repaint it, the thought it would be cool to keep its war wounds,, i kinda get it now, passing down used parts and all he thought that the paint looked just fine to him.
the lower intake rear water jacket was deadend as well. seems like this is something that doesnt happen on other older intakes or on aftermarket support for the the carb intakes... just thought id mention my lack of paying attention.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 12:46:27 AM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 12:46:27 AM
Quote from: beast50;405548
Looks good! How does it run?
i honestly didnt expect much but it really did make the engine sound more fluid and it sounds like its running with more ease.
on the throttle its like a different car.
btw, his head ports match up almost perfect to the explorer upper using a mic.
i thought you guys said my heads would be a bottle neck, his is the 88 year, so maybe the only gain on gt40/p would be weight loss..?
removing the injector screens will just make him have to change the fuel filter every other oil change or maybe each time, but that cured the slight hesitation as it did on the 3.8L cfi.
he understood the risk in not having them and made the choice. we took out the old screens and they were collaped and you couldnt see through them.
no one had any screens in stock the one and only day we had to fetch gaskets so he's going without.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: Beau on December 28, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
Post by: Beau on December 28, 2012, 01:00:37 AM
You'll notice a difference with the GT40's on. They're also iron, so there's none or very little difference in weight. The differences are a revised plug angle (P heads only) and the P's also have the same exh valve size as the E7. The Non P '40s have a bit bigger exh valve, and slightly larger chambers than the P's. Smaller chambers=slightly higher compression ration, more power. Plus the revised plug angles help make the burn a little more efficient.
Some guys will argue that P's are no better than non P 40's...but, there's a reason we are P head fans.
The downside: you're going to need expensive headers. BBK 1515 and a short plug on #7 cylinder, I believe. Vinnie and Jerry could chime in on this, they both have P headed engines, Vinnie has the BBKs, Jerry is running FRPP headers.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/gt40-vs-gt40p.549276
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/29759-gt40-vs-gt40p-cylinder-heads.html
Some guys will argue that P's are no better than non P 40's...but, there's a reason we are P head fans.
The downside: you're going to need expensive headers. BBK 1515 and a short plug on #7 cylinder, I believe. Vinnie and Jerry could chime in on this, they both have P headed engines, Vinnie has the BBKs, Jerry is running FRPP headers.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/gt40-vs-gt40p.549276
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/29759-gt40-vs-gt40p-cylinder-heads.html
Quote from: P head user
The HP should be between 30-50 if you know what you're doing. I got 58 RWHP from my swap.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 01:11:18 PM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 01:11:18 PM
ill have my son read this thread and gather parts,,
we were aware of the header expense, and the plug angle.
from my diy link,, is the below data still accurate from what you know,, i usually have the info i need, but time tests all this stuff you know.
302 / 87-93 / E7TE-PA / 60-64CC / 1.78/1.46
302*/ 93-93 / F3ZE-AA / 60-63CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 COBRA/some mid 90's f150 with 351
302*/ 94-95 / F4ZE-AA / 60-63CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 COBRA/some mid 90's f150 with 351
302*/ 96-97 / F1ZE-AA / 63-66CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 EXPLORER/Mountainer
302*/ 97-00 / F77E-AA / 58-61CC / 1.84/1.46 GT-40P EXPLORER/Mountainer
*******GT or GTP stamped next to number 1 spark plug
*******1996 is the magical confussing year for the gt as it may also be on SUV's.
*******Dont forget these appear on 351 truck engines as well.
*******obtain headers off doner as well
*******obtain larger throttle body/upper /lower intake since they flow better
*******concerns...existing piston clearance
we were aware of the header expense, and the plug angle.
from my diy link,, is the below data still accurate from what you know,, i usually have the info i need, but time tests all this stuff you know.
302 / 87-93 / E7TE-PA / 60-64CC / 1.78/1.46
302*/ 93-93 / F3ZE-AA / 60-63CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 COBRA/some mid 90's f150 with 351
302*/ 94-95 / F4ZE-AA / 60-63CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 COBRA/some mid 90's f150 with 351
302*/ 96-97 / F1ZE-AA / 63-66CC / 1.84/1.54 GT-40 EXPLORER/Mountainer
302*/ 97-00 / F77E-AA / 58-61CC / 1.84/1.46 GT-40P EXPLORER/Mountainer
*******GT or GTP stamped next to number 1 spark plug
*******1996 is the magical confussing year for the gt as it may also be on SUV's.
*******Dont forget these appear on 351 truck engines as well.
*******obtain headers off doner as well
*******obtain larger throttle body/upper /lower intake since they flow better
*******concerns...existing piston clearance
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on December 28, 2012, 08:02:30 PM
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on December 28, 2012, 08:02:30 PM
When I did mine, I didn't bother with drilling and tapping for IAT, I just extended the harness and relocated to the air box where the air is cooler.
My setup: 120k 96 Explorer (non P) complete assembly, swapped the timing chain to double roller, swapped to late HO cam, swapped on early timing cover (which was made much more fun for retaining the Explorer oil cooler), pulled the CMP for my TFI dizzy, carried over the cast valve covers from my HO. converted the 65mm TB, capped off the EGR cooler lines, carried over my 60mm EGR spacer, FRPP oil pump, swapped the pan and pickup, retained speed density (which is starting to get a little pissed with my combo), smog pump delete, 3G, and deleted silencer. Mostly all at once. I still need more exhaust.
My setup: 120k 96 Explorer (non P) complete assembly, swapped the timing chain to double roller, swapped to late HO cam, swapped on early timing cover (which was made much more fun for retaining the Explorer oil cooler), pulled the CMP for my TFI dizzy, carried over the cast valve covers from my HO. converted the 65mm TB, capped off the EGR cooler lines, carried over my 60mm EGR spacer, FRPP oil pump, swapped the pan and pickup, retained speed density (which is starting to get a little pissed with my combo), smog pump delete, 3G, and deleted silencer. Mostly all at once. I still need more exhaust.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: beast50 on December 28, 2012, 08:51:08 PM
Post by: beast50 on December 28, 2012, 08:51:08 PM
Another thing on the gt40p heads is to upgrade the current valvesprings supplied for the explorer. They are light and low revving,Crane and I am sure other brands have the upgrade springs to fix this problem.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: vinnietbird on December 28, 2012, 08:52:17 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on December 28, 2012, 08:52:17 PM
My BBK unequal length shorty headers work just fine with 90 degree plug wire boots and a short plug on number 7. No big deal, and the headers (BBK) can be found used really cheap.
I told you that you would feel the difference. LOL.
I told you that you would feel the difference. LOL.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 28, 2012, 09:05:36 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 28, 2012, 09:05:36 PM
The '86 E headed HO made 200HP and that's using a smaller 58mm throttle body than the 225HP '87 up... As bad as E6 heads flow, the E7 really aren't that much better, when it's time to swap go with a at least a GT40...
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 10:42:40 PM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;405647
My BBK unequal length shorty headers work just fine with 90 degree plug wire boots and a short plug on number 7. No big deal, and the headers (BBK) can be found used really cheap.
I told you that you would feel the difference. LOL.
i still have some bbk's tom sold me a long time ago,, didnt have time to groom these in yet.
You were right though,,, car sounded -T- totally different and power was gained. The only description i can think of is "more fluid" like feel.
seems like the motor found something it needed.
hey foe, kina like that short coil wire you have,, had to make mine short like that on the 20th cause it was like 40feet long.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 10:45:01 PM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 10:45:01 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;405650
The '86 E headed HO made 200HP and that's using a smaller 58mm throttle body than the 225HP '87 up... As bad as E6 heads flow, the E7 really aren't that much better, when it's time to swap go with a at least a GT40...
well, he's over in charlottsville va going to school so he will have to hunt them down , he says the junk yards over there (what little there are) are highly organized and its like entering a store with a security check, not like around here where you go up on the hill and get what you need then drive down to pay.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: Beau on December 28, 2012, 10:49:39 PM
Post by: Beau on December 28, 2012, 10:49:39 PM
What parts does Mason still need? I'm going to the yards maybe Monday if I get over this ed cold/flu...I can try to find some stuff if there's still something you need (factory parts, that is).
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 11:09:25 PM
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2012, 11:09:25 PM
i am gonna have to talk with him, he knows he "would like" gt heads and a cam, next would come the stall converter imho.
his thoughts are that with 175kmiles, he tends to think its not a bad idea to start thinking about a motor rebuild and i warned him this could become the part where it gets expensive. I briefly reviewed with him the stroker kit concept and so now he drools about the idea .. that being said,,
"I" am going to focus on getting the white cougar up and operational for my younger boy chance this summer.. and this in itself will be a bitch because its all 3.8L infrustructure,, inless i go with mega squirt tfi system, otherwise 50 harness's are becoming hard to find in my woods.,, plentyful on trucks though,,,
hummm,, never considered the truck harness as aption before......
oh yeah,, and i gotta get my bronco up again this winter so that will be happening after i get this ign sw / headlamp relay mod done.
I'll pm you with a list of stuff,,, thank you again!
his thoughts are that with 175kmiles, he tends to think its not a bad idea to start thinking about a motor rebuild and i warned him this could become the part where it gets expensive. I briefly reviewed with him the stroker kit concept and so now he drools about the idea .. that being said,,
"I" am going to focus on getting the white cougar up and operational for my younger boy chance this summer.. and this in itself will be a bitch because its all 3.8L infrustructure,, inless i go with mega squirt tfi system, otherwise 50 harness's are becoming hard to find in my woods.,, plentyful on trucks though,,,
hummm,, never considered the truck harness as aption before......
oh yeah,, and i gotta get my bronco up again this winter so that will be happening after i get this ign sw / headlamp relay mod done.
I'll pm you with a list of stuff,,, thank you again!
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 28, 2012, 11:57:29 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 28, 2012, 11:57:29 PM
GT40s will be too small for any type of stroker unless you port the bejesus out of them. At that point you may as well go with aftermarket aluminum heads as they'll flow better out of the box than heavily ported GT40s. Either option will cost cubic dollars :hick:.
He may be better off getting a set of GT40s, cleaning them up, replacing the valve springs, and bolting them on. The only thing I'm fuzzy on is if the GT40 heads will bolt up and work with the stock SO pistons. If so this is probably his best bet right now. After he finishes school he can take the time to build an engine and drop it it. It would be more fun as he'll have the time to build something nice, even a stroker if he wants :D. Plus then he'll hopefully have the $$$ to build something really fun.
He may be better off getting a set of GT40s, cleaning them up, replacing the valve springs, and bolting them on. The only thing I'm fuzzy on is if the GT40 heads will bolt up and work with the stock SO pistons. If so this is probably his best bet right now. After he finishes school he can take the time to build an engine and drop it it. It would be more fun as he'll have the time to build something nice, even a stroker if he wants :D. Plus then he'll hopefully have the $$$ to build something really fun.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 29, 2012, 12:18:43 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 29, 2012, 12:18:43 AM
The 5.0 truck harnesses before '92 are batch fire, the ones after '94/'95 are OBD-II...
Due to the tall intake, many of the truck components are located in a different area, plus computer mounts on driver side, without modifications they aren't really compatible...
A '88 5.0 harness is plug and play in a '88 3.8 Bird/Coug... I'll have to check but I may know where one is...
Due to the tall intake, many of the truck components are located in a different area, plus computer mounts on driver side, without modifications they aren't really compatible...
A '88 5.0 harness is plug and play in a '88 3.8 Bird/Coug... I'll have to check but I may know where one is...
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2012, 01:04:26 PM
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2012, 01:04:26 PM
dang it,, forgot about truck batch fire ,, should have known, my 351 is batch fire. oh well.,, and that eec location, yup dumb thought.
BTW,, the 88 3.8L is also batch fire, i can see how a 5.0 harness would work as an upgrade,, too easy.
BTW,, the 88 3.8L is also batch fire, i can see how a 5.0 harness would work as an upgrade,, too easy.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 30, 2012, 08:55:00 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 30, 2012, 08:55:00 AM
Scott the 5.0 harness I mentioned is gone, went to the s yard with the car...
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: ZondaC12 on December 30, 2012, 10:23:33 PM
Post by: ZondaC12 on December 30, 2012, 10:23:33 PM
Wow! I had no idea Ford did batch-fire on anything. It makes sense that not everything was SEFI overnight....glad I never made the assumption in a parts-buying situation or something like that. Definitely learned something tonight!
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on September 07, 2013, 08:36:26 AM
Post by: jcassity on September 07, 2013, 08:36:26 AM
!~ the upper intake cracked again ,, posting a wanted thread.
he is out of state, its not safe for him to be city driving at 2k rpm at idle.
i have a spare here, so with two cups of coffee in me, and a total wreck to my schedule this weekend before i take off on a work trip early 4am monday, ill cruise over to charlottsville with a spare upper.
he is out of state, its not safe for him to be city driving at 2k rpm at idle.
i have a spare here, so with two cups of coffee in me, and a total wreck to my schedule this weekend before i take off on a work trip early 4am monday, ill cruise over to charlottsville with a spare upper.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 07, 2013, 12:15:23 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 07, 2013, 12:15:23 PM
Quote from: jcassity;421423
!~ the upper intake cracked again ,, posting a wanted thread.
he is out of state, its not safe for him to be city driving at 2k rpm at idle.
i have a spare here, so with two cups of coffee in me, and a total wreck to my schedule this weekend before i take off on a work trip early 4am monday, ill cruise over to charlottsville with a spare upper.
How bad did it crack? Did the corner break off or did a tube get a crack in it? When mine cracked I only found it due to a whistle at part throttle. The idle never changed.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 09:36:40 AM
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 09:36:40 AM
yeah the corner mounting ear broke off,,, not the one you had welded though, it was the rear passanger side.
modified, painted and delivered and installed the replacement yesterday. all is well again but a long day.
modified, painted and delivered and installed the replacement yesterday. all is well again but a long day.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 08, 2013, 10:38:17 AM
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 08, 2013, 10:38:17 AM
Jay why are you having Upper issues. I thought we discussed this some time ago. Are you using those thivk isolators?? If Yes throw them in the GARBAGE they suck and break off the ears. Please advise i am curious Thanks!!
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 10:46:48 AM
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 10:46:48 AM
i am not having any issues with intakes, no i am not using a spacer.
My son swaped passanger and driver injector banks from one side to the other to see if he could transfer a minor miss he can hear out the tail pipe..
upon completion of the task, either his work or my recent engine work caused the intake mounting ear to break.
i purchased this intake that "broke again" with a repair weld to it.
either way, all is well
My son swaped passanger and driver injector banks from one side to the other to see if he could transfer a minor miss he can hear out the tail pipe..
upon completion of the task, either his work or my recent engine work caused the intake mounting ear to break.
i purchased this intake that "broke again" with a repair weld to it.
either way, all is well
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 08, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 08, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Ok just wondering why the EAR broke off. That is something that would bug me if it happened TWICE. Thanks just curious!!
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 11:25:41 AM
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2013, 11:25:41 AM
yeah me too,
he understands the two mating surfaces need to match and that a quick few passes of 800 grit emory cloth fixed to a true straight object will help to seal things up.
in our case, this intake had been welded a long while ago, we were so fearful it would break again, i layed out a three gasket setup to allow us to snug down the bolts to a minimum.
we had two oem gaskets with a home made gasket material gasket in the middle. this gave us a decent amount of cushion to insure we could still tighten down the bolts but yet not tighten down too much. you can see how well that ended up working out LOL.
he understands the two mating surfaces need to match and that a quick few passes of 800 grit emory cloth fixed to a true straight object will help to seal things up.
in our case, this intake had been welded a long while ago, we were so fearful it would break again, i layed out a three gasket setup to allow us to snug down the bolts to a minimum.
we had two oem gaskets with a home made gasket material gasket in the middle. this gave us a decent amount of cushion to insure we could still tighten down the bolts but yet not tighten down too much. you can see how well that ended up working out LOL.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 08, 2013, 11:28:39 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 08, 2013, 11:28:39 PM
Quote from: jcassity;421449
yeah the corner mounting ear broke off,,, not the one you had welded though, it was the rear passanger side.
modified, painted and delivered and installed the replacement yesterday. all is well again but a long day.
Well that sucks. Maybe the extra gaskets caused an issue? How did your son tighten it down? I learned two things with the uppers:
1. Don't bother with the factory torque setting (around 10 ft/lbs) just snug it down tight.
2. Don't use a 3/8" ratchet to tighten the upper to lower bolts. It will allow you to apply too much torque which could crack an ear. I always use a 1/4" drive ratchet to tighten down the upper to lower bolts. It's very hard to over torque the bolts that way.
Quote from: TOM Renzo;421451
Jay why are you having Upper issues. I thought we discussed this some time ago. Are you using those thivk isolators?? If Yes throw them in the GARBAGE they suck and break off the ears. Please advise i am curious Thanks!!
On my set up I have to run a 1/2" spacer between the upper and lower intake for valve cover clearance. I have taller than stock valve covers (to clear roller rockers plus I like the way they look better than the stock ones). Without the spacer the throttle cable hits the valve cover on the passenger side. If you use a 1/4" drive ratchet to tighten the bolts and don't over torque them you *should* be fine. I wouldn't be running the spacer if the upper would clear my valve covers without it.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: jcassity on September 14, 2013, 06:49:12 AM
Post by: jcassity on September 14, 2013, 06:49:12 AM
I need start a thread that solves this upper to valve cover issue.
i told mason we would modify the upper and relocate the vac fittings along the upper that conflict the driver valve cover.
i have a couple ideas on this.
on the explorer upper there are two fittings but those can be plugged off and the vac elbow we need can be moved on the inside of the upper.
its my belief that you wont have any issues if this is done...not sure who has looked at doing this yet.
i told mason we would modify the upper and relocate the vac fittings along the upper that conflict the driver valve cover.
i have a couple ideas on this.
on the explorer upper there are two fittings but those can be plugged off and the vac elbow we need can be moved on the inside of the upper.
its my belief that you wont have any issues if this is done...not sure who has looked at doing this yet.
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 16, 2013, 05:22:24 AM
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 16, 2013, 05:22:24 AM
I am well aware of the higher valve covers being an issue with clearance and needing spacers. But i have found many broken ears on these UPPERS. It is simply an issue of FLATNESS and over tightening the upper. I have long been installing them without a gasket if they are FLAT. A simple swipe with some high tac and no gasket and you are golden. BUT!!! Both halves must be sent out and machined for trueness. Once this is dun the gasket is not needed As far as roller rockers UPGRADE that is DEBATABLE. I have seen many of them come apart and ruin engines. Not all roller rockers are created EQUAL. Here is a way to hide vacuum lines and have the ability to service vacuum lines.
As far as Roller Rockers go. If you are running a cam under 550L and mild durations your STOCK HAMMERS WORK JUST FINE! Just a thought.
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-63.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/001-63.jpg.html)
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/002-32.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/002-32.jpg.html)
As far as Roller Rockers go. If you are running a cam under 550L and mild durations your STOCK HAMMERS WORK JUST FINE! Just a thought.
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-63.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/001-63.jpg.html)
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/002-32.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/002-32.jpg.html)
Title: Explorer uppper and lower mod begins, son's christmas prize
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 17, 2013, 06:14:31 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 17, 2013, 06:14:31 PM
Quote from: jcassity;421712
I need start a thread that solves this upper to valve cover issue.
i told mason we would modify the upper and relocate the vac fittings along the upper that conflict the driver valve cover.
i have a couple ideas on this.
on the explorer upper there are two fittings but those can be plugged off and the vac elbow we need can be moved on the inside of the upper.
its my belief that you wont have any issues if this is done...not sure who has looked at doing this yet.
On mine the issue was the throttle cable hitting the valve cover on the passenger side. The vac fittings cleared fine.