Well after all I went through on the fuel pump change the car runs like hell now.
I switched from the original to a 155 lph pump, but now it seems like it’s not getting enough fuel.
Tell me what you think-
First of all the car will barely start. Before the change the old pump was loud, but the cars started right up. Now I have to turn it over for 8-12 seconds before it will even sputter.
When I get on the gas, it seems like the car has no power, and it revs a lot higher before it finally changes gears.
Occasionally when I speed up to try to pass or whatever, the car starts sputtering and jerking around. As long as I go slow, I’m fine.
I was afraid that the pump might turn since it was smaller than the original hose and twist the fuel line, so I tried to clamp it down well, but I know it still may have moved. Especially since the filter sock was different and I was guessing at the angle. I can easily see that twisting the pump and crimping the hose inside the tank.
Before I drop that $@*&%$ tank again, is there something else I need to adjust after switching to the bigger pump, or does it sound like something is restricting the fuel flow?
Thanks for any input.
Bueller?
Bueller?
did you check your fuel pressure? didnt drop a assload of rust into the gas tank when u switched pumps did you? that could clog it
I didn't check the fuel pressure. Honestly I am still at the rookie stage when it comes to working on cars, so I'm not even sure how to do that. What would be teh easiest way to check it? How hard is it to hook up a fuel pressure gauge? Sure should be easier than dropping the tank again only to find out "that ain't it".
I tried not to get rust in the tank, and went so far as to clean out all the I could get to with my little hand pump. I don't think that is it, but it looks like I'm going to have to drop the tank again this weekend anyway, so we will see.
On a side note it is my rookie status that makes me post these questions so frequently, but I really do appreciate people jumping in and offering any suggestions. I wouldn't even be able to keep the car running without you guys and this site. So....Thanks.
Ok, so as not to competely rely on you guys I have been researching fuel pressure gauges a little.
Long term should I go with electric? Do I need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
Short term, do you think this would work until I could work on a cleaner install of the gauges, etc?
Homemade Gauge (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/quickfpg.html)
if your just using the gauge for testing/diagnosis autozone sears napa etc sell them no idea on price maybe $30...... they just screw onto the schrader fitting (looks like tire valve) on fuel rail. no ideas on permanent dash install other than you need an isolator so fuel is not entering passenger area
OK got a gauge, so what sort of pressures should I be seeing?
rock solid 40psi.
If you drive with it hooked up, you get to see your real problem. Hook it up to the schrader valve, duct tape the tester to your windshield and take it for a drive.
If your needle moves during your shifting,, the pump aint worth a dime.
I bought a supercharge v6 pump and it does not move even when i floor it.
whats all this talk bout the FPR? Yeah,, you might as well get a new one but if your old one is not bad,, dont think you could compensate by adjusting or changing the fpr.
trust me,, put the guage on your windshield and drive it. it only makes sense to troubleshoot in a manner that is as close to the problem as you can get,,ie-problem while the car is under loaded conditions.
OK I've got an 88 302 SO, and if I have it on the right valve I'm only getting about 10-15.
Am I missing something here?
If not it looks like at least I've narrowed it down to the pump
.....right?
:wtf:
jcassity,
unless I'm on the wrong valve I don't think my gauge will reach the windshield.
not sure thats the right one eh? well,, unhook your guage. turn your key forward,, now turn your key off.
use a pointed thingy and push into the needle on the schrader valve,,,,,,did you get gas to come out? does it smell like gas?
mines homemade, 100psi water guage,3ft hose, end fitting.
you fp sux.
better find out why.
drop the tank
unhook the elec conn
unhook fuel lines
clamp a hose to the fuel feed tube (hint-inline with filter)
find you a water guage lying around somewhere
clamp it on the other end of your hose.
rehook up your elec conn(need to turn your key forward for this option) or supply your pump with direct battery.
if fuel presure is still 10-15psi, get a new pump
if it is like wwwwwaaaaayyyyyyy up there like 90, its good and your problem is up the line.
Man I get NOTHING out of there. I can tell it is releasing pressure, but I get no fuel. Is there a valve on the return line?
I just put this new pump on, and I’m thinking the fuel line in the tank must have gotten crimped.
Thanks for the help. I think I’m just going to have to drop the tank again this weekend.
thats the spot
forgive me as I am tired but the pressure does vary I think 32 with vacuum on fuel regulator and 40 w/o.................if you only got 15 you got a problem maybe fuel filter maybe pump pickup maybe just got a defective pump
looks like we are all posting at once..........i'm out now good luck
Get you some good rubber fuel line and clamp it to the gage and the other end directly to the output of the fuel filter(disconnect the fuel line to the engine). Turn the ign sw on and off 3-4 times and observe the pressure. If its still low, you'll be dropping the tank. If its high (80-100 psi or more), you have a bad filter or a problem with the fuel pressure regulator.
I did this same test on a TC that would barely run a while back and got 25psi. After I changed the pump pressure went to 85psi, had to repl the regulator to get the proper 32-39 psi.
Well I’ve got great news and I’ve got horrible news.
The great news is that I dropped the tank again, and found my stupid mistake. I got in a hurry and didn’t change the four inches of fuel line going from the pump itself to the outlet. I guess the pressure of the new pump just split the old line, so 95% of the fuel was just running right back into the tank.
Thanks to every one for their help. This time it only took me about a ¼ of the time it took last time. It was running about 80 pounds straight from the new pump, and about 35 at the fuel rail. Still not what you guys said to expect, but I’ll change the fuel filter again in case I stirred some up in the tank.
Bad news now –
When I moved the car off the ramps I noticed a little puddle of oil. My car has always leaked a little oil, but this was more than normal so I crawled back under it and looky what I found. Anyone want to take a guess at what the hell that is hanging out of the edge of my freakin oil pan?!?!?!
Sometimes I think this car will be the death of me.
Change your fuel filter. It could have gotten in it from when you changed the pump.
Approx 30 psi with vac on the regulator, and 39 psi no vac is what you want to have.
As far as the oil pan you may be able to loosen the bolts and "tuck" the gasket back in place. I did just that on the sister in laws Areostar a while back. It was so bad she was only getting 75 miles to a quart(had so much oil under it you probably couldn't sink it) :giggle: It still leaks a little but only takes about a quart in 1500 miles. And the garage told her $450 to replace it(book says pull tranny)... NFW
Thanks I'll give that a try. After all what do I have to lose?
I'd like to do an engine swap, but not yet.
It can be done in the car but you have to have faith in yourself, your tools and your common sense to safety.
undo the motor mounts and if you want, remove them completely
lift the motor up not by the till the bellhousing stops you.
(or jack it up on the crank pulley using wood to protect the pully)
add blocks of wood inplace ow the mounts till you have it toped.
remove pan bolts
pry down
remove front/rear seal
remove each side gasket.
install in revers (of course you know to clean up surfaces as well as what drops in the pan)
oopppsss,, forgot to mention drain the oil :giggle:
since you might wanna tune up the pan ,, a buddy showed me a way that you could do this with the pan in the bay like you have it.
use a bolt,nut and two washers
slip washer on bolt
slip bolt thru hole on pan
slip washer on the othe side of the pan
add the nut
tighten down pretty well till you feel like stopping
what does this do? removes the bevel in the pan which reduces prevents you from tightening it down properly.
the other method would be if your pan was out and allows different steps.
So here's a theoretical faux-paux. I have the same deal with my car (oil pan that is). Looking at the picture and mine as well for the overall setup of the pan vs. the k-member. I was wondering, and I am basing this on the use of a one piece gasket, is it possible to:
1) Simply unbolt the pan
2) Hold the pan up and slide the gasket between the k-member and around the oil pan
3) Let the pan drop and rest on the k-member
4) Get the old gasket outta the way (this could be done after removing the bolts actually)
5) Slide the new gasket side by side (flexible rubber hint hint!) back in between the block and oil pan.
6) Bolt it back up to appropriate torque specs.
If this is possible it would alleviate the jacking up the engine. Granted I need to get back under the car and double check the clearance. But if memory serves, there should be more than enough room to do it that way. Using the 4 piece gasket as jcassity suggested would be even easier this way. Nonetheless let rebuttal begin!!!
Honestly I'm mot sure I'm ready to tackle that by myself.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to do a little more research and see if I might want to try to cahnge it in the car. :sawzall:
Well I did the whole “gasket tuck” thing. Honestly I’m too tired to see if it worked (not due to the repair).
I tried not to tighten the bolts up too much, but I did snap one of the bolts off. Strange, because I really didn’t put anything into it at all. It must have been cracked already.
It is becoming increasingly clear that I better start saving my pennies for a swap.
Brace yourselves for multiple “302 vs 351 swap” questions.