i'm not much of a news person, but the title i clicked on really caught my eye.. is high school really getting this bad? i graduated just over 5 years ago and it wasn't even close to this serious..
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/ohios-mentor-high-school-under-scrutiny-after-spate-of-suicides/19667585?ncid=webmail
It's very hard to be different in a school where you don't fit in. Been there, done that. not ever going back. So to answer your question..... No, nothing has really changed in the last 30 years that I know about.
There have always been bullies, there always will be....human nature......sadly. They can't be ignored, and they shouldn't be feared. Fear is how they maintain their sense of false strength. I only had issues with one guy from high school. He was somewhat of a bully I suppose. He was a grade ahead of me. After I graduated,I had forgotten all about him and moved away when I joined the Air Force. When I came back on leave a couple of years later to see my parents, I stopped at the Sonic to get a drink and he approached me like we were still in school. I beat his A$$ in the parking lot.Now when I see him down town, he won't even look me in the eye. I personally think some things in school these days are different, but, I also think people as a whole are a LOT more sensitive than they used to be, and don't handle any kind of stress very well. Since all of the cell phones, texting, and all of that,I think it has really put a limit on people's social skills (not for EVERYONE,but most). Not to justify any bullying, I won't tolerate it, and neither do my two youngest sons (14 and 21). I do believe that those kind of people need to be put in their place quickly (young or adult).I've heard of suicides from being bullied,sad stuff. I don't remember ever hearing of that when I was in school. After the military,and being a city patrolman for a couple of years, I think my tolerance of stupid people is very low. Also, parents need to watch their kids. Look for signs of depression, or other signs that something may be wrong and then tend to it. Most people ignore too much with their kids until it's too late. You have to be involved, whether the child wants you to or not. They are the child,and that's the parent's job, to take care of them, teach them, and guide them....whether they like it or not. As a parent, my dad told me when my first child was born , "Son,remember,no matter how much you love them, you're not their friend,you are their parent. There is a line drawn between the two." Thus, the whole "this is gonna hurt me more than you" meaning. I am very close with my kids, but I do have to be the parent,and at times, make decisions my kids HATE. But, I have to do what's right, not always what's popular.
Sorry for all of that.I got on a roll.
I would say it's been around since the beginning of time. However, back in the day, when only one parent worked, or all the kids grew up on a family farm, there were elders/parents around to continually discipline their kids. Nowadays, both parents have to work to get by, and the kids suffer. So in that regard, more bullying and disrespect seem to becoming more evident and widespread. Plus the media is global now, so everything that happened way back when, was kept within the community, now everyone gets to hear all about it.
People get bullied, and there always is a breaking point. It's up to the individual what that breaking point will be, internal or external; kicking the bully's ass, or killing yourself.
I do think that story is messed up how those girls laughed at their victim in the casket. THAT is something that is a new low. Bullying has always been around, but this lack of affection for fellow being is growing. Even in my day, when a bully shoved somebody and they fell and hit their head, they'd ask if he's alright before laughing, heh.
I'd be willing to say that it's a lack of ass-beating.
I got my butt whipped a lot when I was younger for getting out of line, I learned what was right and what wasn't. Laughing at someone in a casket for any reason is completely unacceptable.
There IS a god difference between a spanking and child abuse.
I agree, but not everyone sees it that way. I also got my ass whipped a lot when I was younger, as did my older sister. My dad got soft on my 2 younger brothers, and was a lot easier on them. Well, my older sis is going on her 6th year in College and I am raising a family, going to work/vocational school, both of us doing pretty good. Guess what the 2 bro's are doing? Sitting in a cell....... Anybody see a pattern?
i got my ass beat many times when i was a kid.. had many wooden spoons broken over my ass.. then my mom bought the hard plastic 1's, they don't break lmao.. if i'm ever 'blessed' with kids, they'll get raised the same way i did, a little hand-to-ass is a good thing (unless you're the receiver) lol
but maybe i'm just lucky, my school wasn't nearly that bad
There's the problem right there. Kids today are assholes because they know they can get away with being assholes. There are no consequences for bad behaviour. Just like those in power seem to worry more about the rights of criminals than they do the rights of the public, so to do they care more about the asshole kids than the victims of those kids. I'd never advocate child abuse, but I see nothing whatsoever wrong with straightening an unruly kid out with a good smack across the arse. If the kid knows poor behaviour is rewarded with pain he would think twice about behaving badly. So-called "time outs" are an absolute joke.
How many of us older folk (IE born before the 1990s, or in my case, the early 1970's) see children acting out and think "Man, when I was a kid I'd get my ass tanned if I acted like that"? Those thoughts are proof that or parents being firm with us worked...
wow, your old...
This is especially true in the states that do not allow spankings. The kids that know that the parents aren't allowed by law to spank their children, use that against them.
I have seen that happen many times. Luckily here in Tennessee( or in my county, at least) you are
allowed to spank your child on the ass, as long as no marks are left.
If I ever threatened to call someone on my Mom she would have told me to call an ambulance cuz I was going to need one when she was done with me .
I totally agree that corporal punishment is effective and sometimes necessary.
I heard a funny story, first hand, from a guy that used to be a deputy in Benton County, TN.
The department kept getting a call from this mom whose kid was always being a trouble maker. So, the deputy went over because the kid wouldn't go to school. The kid says something smart to the effect of, "I don't have to do what my mom says and she can't lay a hand on me."
Well, the deputy talks to the kid, then tells the mom she's within every letter of the law to spank the snot nosed kid. So, he says, "I'm going to make sure your mom spanks you right."
The mom throws the boy over her laps and starts spanking him. The deputy eggs it on, "you know you can spank him harder, right?"
Soon enough, the kid's crying bloody murder.
When it's all said and done, the deputy tells the kid, "the next time we get called over here,
I am the one that's going to be doing the spanking."
Needless to say, the kid straightened up and started flying right :rollin:
Smartass :shakeass:
I don't have any kids, but I've always said that if I did I'd be the one you see on the evening news and all over youtube with security camera footage of me stuffing my misbehaved little brat into the back seat of the car, in the Wal-Mart parking lot, then the ol' smackin' arm would start flying back & forth.
Which brings up another point: When we were kids, when our parents said "you just wait 'til we get home" or "you just wait 'til I get you in the car", or the much dreaded "Wait 'til your father gets home", it actually put the fear of God into us, and we got plenty repentant for acting up...
Still makes me shudder LOL
I ain't laughing, here ...I hated hearing Mom say that ....
Bullying is exactly why I pulled Keely out of school last year and home schooled her... also part of why we moved to a new town, new school. Last year she was in 6th grade... and for those who know here, you know how tiny she is... it made her an easy target.
Kids broke into her locker and stole her books... they kicked her and punched her.
I went to the superintendent of the school and he and the teachers did nothing... this had gone on since she was in 4th grade....I finally had enough and pulled her out...
she became a totally different kids after that... she went back to being her old joking humorous self, and was much easier to get along with.
Now she's in a new school and they don't put up with bullying... she loves it there and is thriving.
I was bullied when I was in school too... for being overweight...like I didn't know I was anyway. Now I look back and realize I wasn't as big as I thought I was because of what people said... I didn't take their shiznit though, I decked a couple of them back then and got away with it for the most part. More because of who my dad was and because he had warned the school that if they didn't make it stop, he would let me do what I had to do.
Kids now are allowed to get away with too much shiznit... and I tell my kids not to put up with it... I try to handle it civilly when it starts, but if it keeps on, then I let my kids handle it their way... not may mess with my boys. And they would have loved to have taken care of the kids that were messing with Kee...but since the boys were 17 and 18 at the time, I couldn't let them do it.... not cool for them to pound an 11 year old.
They are a bunch of wimps, no I was not a bully lol. Seems like fights are not settling the problems like they use to, because a good old fashioned court yard brawl will put you in the slammer. Oh and don't get me started on the kids that were the skinny jeans and the justin beber hair, they might bring it upon them selves.:nannerbang: I just don't understand how it could be so bad that they have to take the easy way out, :shoothead I guess I don't understand the point of wanting to be so different to get attention even if its negative. Sorry just rambling on my thoughts kids are changing everyday, I have yet to see boy's that I would like to see my daughters with and the oldest is 7, that means by the time she starts dating things will be even worse.:punchballs:
That's funny Jerry.................
Yeah I'm another one who always did the different thing (my hair's been how many colors over the history of CJ?) I played electric bass in the school band, I was the resident "freak" in my school. I got turned in to the guidance counselors for suicidal thoughts when I wasn't having any, got threatened by teachers and students alike, the whole 9 yards. I graduated in 2001 for a time line reference btw.
Bullying has always and will always be there. There should be a point where something is done, no kid deserves daily torment, but at the same time I do think it's part of life and you shouldn't be sheltered from it entirely. Kids need to learn to stick up for themselves too though and tell people to shove it. I went from people giving me , to them being afraid of me and then FINALLY senior year going "wait, you're actually pretty normal"
It's messed up what happened to those kids but at the same time you have to wonder why they never said anything. Sure it's hard to talk about things but I'm known as a bitch most of the time because I gave up on pleasantries and tell it how it is now. I won't go out of my way to be mean but if you piss me off, trust me, you'll know when where and why.
Honestly I'm with Carmen on the whole getting caught on camera thing. I don't believe in being abusive but I do believe in a swat to the butt for unnecessary behavior. I'm not going to put up with temper tantrums at a store or let Dakota run around like a psycho in a restaurant. There's a time and a place to play and she'll know what they are. I smile when I see kids running around having fun in a controlled way at the store and when they see me with a baby stop and tell their younger siblings "be careful there's a baby" it at least gives me a little bit of hope.
It all comes down to the fact that I'd hate to be a kid nowadays. Everyone is expected to grow up in a hurry and there are just so many idiots out there that you can't do anything anymore. It's really quite pathetic the turns that "civilization" has made, it's definately anything but civil.
Vinnie,
He pulled a "daminc" and originally had the wrong date on the post. think it said he was born in 1071...lol
On kind of a related subject.
A week or so ago, I get an email from the alumni association regarding THIS PROGRAM (http://www.iupui.edu/ucase/scholarships/wwf/), and I actually considered it. Go back to school, get a masters degree, and teach in a "needy" school district for 3 years. There's a slim chance I'd get accepted to it, but on the surface it seems like a good deal.
However, the week I get the email, I have 2-3 dealings with teenagers who would be representative of the kids I would wind up teaching, and it sours me on the whole thing.
I'm not blind to it, I'm still living in the "hood" I grew up in, live with inner city folks, day in day out (I hadn't run off to the suburbs), and I know these kind of programs are needed, and these kids need it. However, the little shiznits have no respect for anyone, and their parents don't care either. I doubt I'd last the 3 years w/o throttling someone.
Kind of a shame, really, but I'm sure someone else might have a better temperament towards it than I.
1071....1967.....what's the difference at this point?LOL.
Chuck,I see where you're coming from. These days,they have taken so much of the teachers authority away,and the kids know that the teachers are almost helpless. Our teachers when I was in school had the power to give a few swats with the paddle. The teacher would ask if we wanted "licks" (keep the comments to yourselves) or a call to my parents.....Go ahead and break out the "board of education". It was gonna hurt,but the punishment was better than what I'd get at home,and a lot quicker. Respect isn't taught to children anymore (well,to the majority). It starts at home. No,parents can't always succeed,but if they don't try,the odds are even greater that bad things will happen.Gayle and I are very involved in our kids lives (the two left that live with us). You know....the whole "as long as you live under our roof...." rules. It has worked great so far. If you don't like our rules,feel free to pay your own rent,tuition,food bills,utilities,etc. That always seems to get our daughter's attention pretty quick. My youngest said the other day "I have rights"...I quickly informed him he had the right to meals and shelter. After that,he's a child and hasn't earned any rights.
Ditto. And it taught me pretty quick.
I don't understand the mentality of some of these "people"....
and that's why my buddy josh is a firm believer in spanking his kids when they're bad.. like playing with a rusty razor blade, which was the most recent. my neighbor on the other hand, refuses to lay a hand on her child, she 'yells' at them and that's the end of it.. today he was being a little prick as usual, so i grabbed him by the arm (not hard, so the neighbor can't start any un-needed BS) and told him i was going to tell his FATHER, who strangely and sickly enough enjoys beating his ass when he's doing something they shouldn't.. didn't have a problem with him for the rest of the day :D
i laughed when she broke the last 1.. then she came home with the hard plastic 1's.. no more laughing.. hahahah
LOL, I never got a single spanking from my parents growing up... I had older siblings and I learned my lesson from them.... however, my dad always said I knew just how far to push things before he hit his breaking point.... lol, I always liked my dad.
It was worse to have a talking to from him than for him to spank me... I hated to hear how I disappointed him in some way. But he always stuck up for me when I needed it too.
My kids give me very few problems, and they stay out of trouble, for the most part. We had an incident with Hunter a few weeks ago, of course he doesn't live with us anymore so it wasn't our issue, but I sat and cried for 3 days over it... he didn't want me to even know about it, but I was called anyway. I explained that we need to know these kinds of things, and we could have maybe helped him with the situation had he told us the truth to begin with... he has since learned that being an adult and on his own has a lot more responsibility that comes with it than he thought. I think he learned his lesson, even though the situation isn't completely resolved yet.
Part of being a parent is being there for your kids when they need you, and being able to say you still have to pay the price if you screw up... I think our kids respect us more for that than if we bailed them out of everything.
But we aren't like most parents either... we expect our kids to behave and be polite.... they are for the most part.... but they still have their moments.
Our nation's morals in general are going down the drain IMO. Most of our "entertainment" today is filled with drugs, violence, shag, and materialism. There is very little emphasis placed on doing what is morally right and respectable. So why are we surprised when our kids are acting out what they see on a daily basis.
you're lucky.. most parents would kill for kids who behave and don't need a beating.. i think the biggest problem these days is a good number of kids have ADD or ADHD.. and poor parenting doesn't help that fact
That statement should be buttstuffyzed through and through.
Parents who spoil their kids rotten....the kids get what all that they want, then expect to get everything they point at at. Then become easily bored with what they have...it's a snowball effect, starts with the parents not growing hair on their balls and saying "no."
I think a lot, but not all of the "ADD" issue is that the parents don't have time, money, or imagination to keep their kids positively stimulated.
Back when I was little, say 7th grade through high school, I was labeled "dumb", "stupid" and lazy...I'm not, I just wanted to be outside doing stuff instead of sitting in a hot stinky classroom.
I got a spanking in 4th grade for not doing my work....that teacher went on to marry my cousin, there's no hurt feelings over it...I had it coming, and it did me some good.
Nowadays, if she pulled that, she'd be jailed. The kids would be awarded a judgement and probably undergo state-ordered counseling, and the school would lose a lot if not all state funding.
What a shaging miscarriage of common sense it all is. A little ass-kicking never hurt anybody..it's a character builder.
When it comes to kids having black eyes, busted lips, and bloody noses over discipline, either the parent or the kid (or both) have stepped over a line...THAT'S when someone needs to be called, I think.
But what do I know....:hick:
I can only think of a few times where my father put me in my place, and I deserved it every time. But me being the stupid teenager I was, I wish I would have listened to him then. I don't recall ever being spanked.
Lack of disipline = asshole kids.
I was raised in a "spanking when you earned it" household and I turned out pretty good. I had friends who only ever got yelled at.... There in jail, on drugs or just on welfare with kids and drinking problems.
Go figure.
Bullies will always be around, but for some reason kids raised to be 'real men/women' are very rare. Where are the other kids who can and will stand up to these bullies at, when they see this going on? I know Seamus will be raised knowing what's right and wrong, and to stand up to the wrong when he sees it. Coira already is.
If everybody was doing their job (all those responsibilities people spend most of their time trying to push off on everybody else) parents wouldn't have to watch their kids for suicidal tendencies caused by bullying. The blame lies on everyone who knew it was going on.
And my wife NEVER says, "Wait until your father gets home." She knows how to deal with them in all situations.
That is quite true. I remember once when I was in high school one of my friends was getting made fun of by one guy a lot because he had a "JewFro" (Nothing racist against jews here, he just had really curly hair that grew out like an Afro) to the point where I could see him getting really angry and red-faced. He was a pretty shy person who didn't deal with confrontation very well. Well, long story short, I had had enough of this dude screwing with him, so I confronted him about not in a nice way, but not threatening. I ended up getting jumped that afternoon, nothing real bad, which I figured was coming, but he stopped messing with my friend Bobby.
I think part of why other kids don't stand up to them is for this reason, they don't want to get beat up/ made fun of as well. They are so set on "fitting in" that some lose sight of how to be righteous and stand up for what is right.
My boys always jumped in when they saw someone getting picked on... and most of you know my boys aren't tiny guys. LOL
When Dakota was in 9th grade there was a new kid at the school names Sam... (who has since become a part of our family because he is one of the boy's best friends)....anyway, Sam is Bishagual and he is just a little goofy... so he was getting picked on, that is until Cody stepped in... Sam used to offer him $5 a day to be his bodyguard. Cody told him keep his money, they were friends and no one would bother him again. And, no one did. Everyone at school know where Cody was, Hunter was, and no one wanted to mess with them.
The only time my boys got in trouble for fighting in school was once, when they got into a fist fight with each other over something stupid. LOL
They were more than willing to step in and handle it when another kid was being picked on at school. My kids' friends always end up being the 'misfits' because of that.
I had to laugh because when their friends all would hang out at our house, people would say "Oh, this kid hangs at your house? they are a trouble maker"
I always came back with "Not at my house they aren't".
The kids who came over were always trouble makers... we always called them the hoodlums of our town.... but when they were with us, they behaved and respected us.... and the ones that still come around, still do. Some of their parents couldn't believe the change in how their kids acted when they were with us.... but they knew we expected it so they were good.
I think kids don't stand up for each other anymore because they are afraid of becoming the target, or of being beat up.... or even getting in trouble at school. That's part of the problem now too, even when a kid is defending themselves or others, they get punished along with the offender because of the 'zero tolerance' stuff. So they aren't willing to jeopardize their record for someone else.
:iagree: well spoken
wow... i wouldnt even do that at my worst enemies funeral. to me, that is probly the most disrespectful thing someone could do.
i cant even say what i would have done if i was at that funeral and saw that, kids or not.
i gave up on pondering what is wrong with kids anymore a long time ago, starts making me feel older than i am.
all i can say is im glad i grew up when and how i did, even though at the time i might not have felt that way.
I'm trying to figure out how all these depressed kids got ahold of the guns to shoot themselves with. Around here when kids killed themselves they jumped in front of semi's or trains.
I was bullied a lot when I was in middle school and early in high school. I wore really thick glasses and I hit my growth spurt early so I was 6' tall and only about 135 pounds so I was really skinny. On top of that I was really smart, always on honor roll and the kid you always see in the movies who just loves to answer every question.(although I always procrastinated on projects lol).
Because of those things people always called me nerdy and things like that. Then I was real clumsy back then too and that never worked in gym class. And wal-mart and goodwill clothes didn't help much either. It was hard to find clothes that fit me right, so I always wound up with "highwaters" and short shorts. To be honest, those things still bother me to this day. I don't ever wear shorts, even in the summer, and I always make sure to buy pants that are at least 2 inches too long. Things like that do leave sort of mental scars on you.
One thing I remember specifically was in science class we all sat at tables instead of desks and this kid threw some kleenexes or something and made a comment about it fell out of my pants. Well that rumor made it around a good ways for a while.
And stupid every day stuff went on for years. But in high school I joined ROTC and somewhere in there I learned to be above it and not take their . And eventually around 11-12 grade things like that really stopped happening to that altogether. I thing between that and the fact that people just grow out of throwing stuff like that at you, it just kinda goes away. Kids need to learn how to deal with it and not take it to heart.
I know its not fun, it never was but people take things to seriously these days. Between all the political correctness and the government going ape shiznit over things like spanking your kids, they're either growing up to soft, or with no respect.
I know that even with all the I took I never seriously felt like killing myself. I had ways to cope with things, and I think kids need to learn how to cope, either by putting up with it, getting back at them, or by telling someone about it, and getting them to do something about it.
I don't blame that guy one bit who jumped on the bus and started threatening his daughter's bullies. I probably would have done the same thing. But that's just the kind of person I am. I've always kind of let people walk all over me, but if it was my family and they were in trouble and they couldn't fix it themselves, I wouldn't hesitate to deal with it myself. I think if I was that girls father at that funeral, I don't know what I would have done about those girls. I would probably started something with their parents right then and there. That is wrong on so many levels. I don't think I could have put up with that at all.
I'm not saying its all the kids fault, or the parents fault, or even the schools fault, I just think its a bunch of things that need to be dealt with and if they're getting as bad as they are, who knows how much worse it will get.
As for the ADD thing, I think you need to get some REAL information on the disorder. ADD does NOT equal ass-hole. There are plenty of ass-hole kids who's parents, and doctors, will pass it off as ADD because they don't want to admit that they failed, but anyone who knows about the disorder knows it's BS. I was a good kid. My nephew who has ADHD is a good kid. He won't hang out with his friends on weekends, because he doesn't want to be around when they drink.
totallyadd.com
It's much more complex than being loud and excitable.
i was diagnosed with ADD when i was 7.. it's really hard to pay attention because your mind wanders very easily.. it makes some kids act up and start causing trouble because hy don't know what to o with themselves.. and sometimes it can take years to find the proper meds to control it.. luckily i was on ritalin for 34 years and switched to adderal until i was 16, when i learned how to control it myself.. a lot of dumbass kids these days act like they're bragging they have ADD like it makes them cool and use it as an excuse for near everything.. fact is, it really sucks