What is the best way to set the TPS sensor?
You do not have to set it.
•Closed Throttle can be anywhere between 0.6-1.0 volts
•Part Throttle is triggered @ 0.04 volts above Closed Throttle
•Full Throttle is triggered @ 2.71 volts above Closed Throttle
As long as the voltage is between .6-1 volt at idle and hits 2.71 volts above idle voltage, or higher, and the increase in voltage is smooth through entire throttle movment, no further action is required.
Every time the car is started, the computer resets the TPS sensor voltage to the closed idle voltage. Setting it to .9999999 Does not do anything.
http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=30
Not really true
Did you see the minor amount of voltage it takes to trigger part throttle,0.04v.
If you just put the tps on and don't set it,it can and more than likley will be above 1.04v.
Most i have seen are and some have even needed to have the adjustment slots elongated to get to below 1 volt,and it should be below 1v.
I have a piggyback standalone that tells me when the eec is at idle,part,wot etc and it does not like even .98v to see idle.
1v is part throttle,.94-.97v is usual for the ford eec-iv to see idle.
Also heat affects the sensor(i have seen it with my own eyes)i have set the sensor to .98v cold and it ended up over 1v hot(which is part throttle)so set the tps hot.
I cannot remember which two wires must be probed to get the voltage,one is ground(black usually)one is 5v referance and one is signal voltage.
You need to put a volt meter to signal voltage and ground and set your tps to around .96v.
The eec-iv resetting the tps voltage everytime the engine is restarted is 100% untrue.
I usually set mine at .96, for the above reasons. I've had it higher already and never noticed any issue with it either.
1v is the maximum for the computer to be able to reconize the idle strategy. If you set it to .75 or .98 it does not matter. The computer takes the first number it can see every time the car is started up and goes from there. if it is set at .99v then the computer will not go into part throttle until 1.03v.
I'm not sure where I stated anything wrong?
I did not know that heat can change the values. Learn something new everyday.
My eec-iv (A9P) will not recognize 1v as idle,it is part throttle.
Anything above .98 on mine is part throttle.
Below .98 you are correct ,it is idle but if you go to low it is undervolt/undertravel.
Not sure where the info about the eec taking whatever voltage is at each startup is for idle then adding the .04v to get part throttle came from but mine sure doesn't do that.
It's a programmed table in the eec for voltages of what is acceptable and what is not.
Mine always starts at about the same voltage give or take .01v(it should not change anyways) and alwayshiznits part throttle at the same time .04v.
If my tps was set at .99v(which on mine is part throttle)then the eec would never see idle,it would always see part throttle to start with, which causes various problems in multiple tables in the eec(hunting idle/rich idle etc).
I state this from experience in tuning my eec and seeing many things that the average person cannot see on screen.
While ford fuel injection has lots of good info it is not always correct.
I agree with all of you,, hey thats new:hick:
the green wire to ground is the one to set the voltage however you dont really need to do it with power, it can be done by resistivity alone.
no two tps's are alike either, thats the main reason for my 2c worth. I pick out the one with the highest resistance from orange to black so i end up with a wider voltage range installed.
also, an buttstuffog meter is best for setting the tps so you can easily see the intermittant opens or disparity in an existing tps while testing by way of moving the throttle linkage. lets see whats new and what we all can offer/learn
Out of spec TPS voltage = KOEO code 23
Lets do some math here. And yes, every time you turn the car on, the computer takes the lowest voltage and uses that as a base for idle.
.75v idle
.79v = part throttle
3.46v or higher = WOT
Essentially, there is no reason for the TPS to even read all the way up to 5v (about where it should stop at) because your car is already floored at 3.5v.
If the TPS dosen't change voltages, then why is there a sensor, instead of just a basic map that the computer references? Wait, it does. It just uses the mythical .99v as a base. You can set it to be anything you want, from .6-1V.
I could see it being possible that your computer see's .99v as 1v, but then that would mean that your TPS is actually set at .96 for idle. I think that it can also be as high as 1.2v and still operate correctly.
Yep. 1.25V is the upper level which the ECU thinks the TPS has failed. The TPS voltage is usually a little lower at the ECU than what you measure at the TPS. Low voltage limit is 0.5V. So, 0.6V - 1.2V is a safe window. With stock equipment you should never be able to get outside this window as they just bolted these things together - Ford never wanted to nor did they 'set' the TPS voltage. Wherever the voltage falls in the 0.6 - 1.2V range, part throttle is 0.04V higher than this. WOT is 2.775V higher than closed throttle voltage.
Yep, some time ago I measured mine and it was at 1.15v with no issue, this was on a Ford Racing 65mm TB that had never been touched... Experimenting, I elongated the holes to get it down to .7v, and after a couple learn cycles it's always idled/run same as it did at 1.15v...
BTW this is with a A9P EEC...
I have seen Speed Densety EECs that idle went high when voltage was increased to over 1v, makes one wonder if they all have the same strategy...
If you guys don't want to believe me that's cool.
However i speak from real world experience and not just someone's website information.
I can see everything my eec is doing and at what voltages it is doing it at.
Your eec voltage should never change from what you set it at for idle so it will always take where you set it(my case .96v)and go from there.
I wil tell you though MY eec wants no more than .98v to be in the idle circuit not 1v not 1.25v not etc etc.
What you all need to understand is, is that ford set a tabled value for max idle voltage and that voltage on MY eec is .98v.
If i set my idle to .99v MY eec is in part throttle and never sees idle, therefore the .99v-1.0v you are talking about is part throttle not idle and the .04v never matters as it would always be in part throttle program.
The idle voltage min/max range is again a TABLE and does not reset with ever key cycle.
You are however correct in the fact that no matter your idle voltage to a min.76- .99(this will not change unless manually doing so) max your eec will take this and then ad the .04 to get part throttle.
The Tables of what is what are rom memory not ram memory.
TC50 your car may have ran the same from .7 to 1.15v but i will tell you that after .99v you were in the part throttle table circuit no matter how many key cycles you used and .04v never came into effect because you where already off idle.
In MY car being in the off idle circuit with a closed throttle blade caused the car to sometimes hunt(lightly) at idle and when i set the tps correctly it stopped the hunting.
Again you guys can argue all you want and not believe we but i speak from real world experience not some website's written info and we all know the internet to be 100% correct right?
Show us....
FWIW -- Ford Fuel Injection has a link to the actual Ford GUFB document....
http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/files/GUFB.pdf
And a good read here. You MAY have to log in to see it......
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,13644.0.html
I've tried .95V, .99V, .7V.......always ran the same.
I try to keep it @ .85V now.....
Well, I was going to give the benefit of the doubt that Speed Density ECUs are different, but then I looked up the strategy used by Speed Density V8s Cougar/Thunderbird and the idle strategy is the same as for A9L & other latter MAF vehicles.
The only way to make idle stay high and think it's in PT is to turn the throttle screw while the engine is running. It'll never idle down if you do this. Easy fix though, just shut the car off and restart it - it'll use the new setting as idle - even if it's above 1V.
I see no tables related to throttle position in any EEC IV strategy - I'd like to see a picture of this as well.
The Turbo Coupes are notorious for a hanging idle, usually around 2K, setting the TPS voltage to less than 1v generally fixes them...
BTW unlike the 5.0 cars, the 2.3 TPS is factory adjustable...
I have no pics of tables as they are in the EEC s rom memory.
To dhow you would not work very well as my enine is currently apart having some work done to it.
That being said I would have to goto my standalone and take a pic,then take a seperate pic of a voltmeter and the voltage as my standalone shows idle,part,part1,wot etc not voltages.
I have determine the idle voltage by checking my standalone for idle and then setting thtps voltage then rechecking the standalone.
I don't have a tweecer but it shows you all the tables on your pc when you program it.
All EEC,s have voltage tables for idle,part and wot you guys know that, otherwise what would be the point of a tps?
So what your saying, is that the PMS has been programed that way. No wonder yours is different. Also, makes everything you said in this thread useless.
"PMS relies on absolute minimum TPS value for idle however, it doesn't mention how it deals with the normal voltage variance you will see from temperature/voltage changes....... my guess is that there is some "leeway" built-in otherwise, it will render it not a good system for normal day-to-day use.....IMHO.
Nevertheless though, the system does not rely on the mythical .9999 vdc setting, keep in mind the system is "programmable" besides, even the example screen used in the user's manual is an obvious "myth buster" for this topic. Check it out."
(http://sbftech.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13644.0;attach=15205;image)
Whatever man, this is once again why i did not want to post in this thread.
The pms does not rely on a minimum,where do you get your info????????????
No one listens everyone thinks there right.
What you said was useless if you can't get the fact the the eec has tables then your just plain ignorant and i'm done posting in this thread.
I don't need comments like that from you or anyone else.
Just trying to state some facts here but you don't get it.
Bottom line,you set your car up wrong and i'll set mine up right, plain and simple.
We told you how the ECU works and that's indisputable fact - nobody should be upset at learning something new.
funny, we have to get this far into a thread for you to tell us your situation does not apply. PMS essentially changes everything. It has a separate setup for the TPS. It does not use the stock settings for the car.
And just so you know, my car is not set the way I have listed. Well it is, but I have a broken vacuum hose that I am too lazy to fix. Car idles at 1000 RPM in park and 800 RPM and does not fluctuate. My car might not even be in the idle strategy. I can't even remember if I checked the voltage on it. I did swap it to a different one after finding dead spots while moving around the throttle.
I have no driveablility problems, and have gotten over 30 MPG over an entire tank of gas before. Its fun driving over 500 miles to a tank. To bad I still had to fill up twice a week. Doesn't really seem to matter to me if I am hitting the idle strategy or not.
BTW, I didn't mean to say useless, I just meant to say that it does not apply to the discussion because you have other parts controlling the idle other then the stock type of setup. I just didn't want someone else reading this that it might matter to, being led in the wrong direction.
Why wasnt that posted in the first thread, if thats true?:D
The TPS reads beyond ~3.5V because the TPS is also a rate sensor. The rotational velocity of the throttle blade(s) is used to help to correct A/F ratio during transient events (quickly increasing throttle).
Not sure if the old Ford strategies use it, but one reason you keep the valid senor range away from the 0 and 5 voltage extremes is to detect open/closed circuits. If the Ford ECU sees 0V, it can assume the throttle has an open circuit. If it sees 5V (or whatever the Vref is), it knows the circuit has a short. Throttle-by-wire
does use these strategies.
TAPMIN and TAPMAX are 0.2V & 4.95V respectively - these are the limits beyond which the ECU considers the TPS to be shorted or open circuit (again, respectively.)
Odie,
Was just wondering if you figured out how to set your TPS? Lots of info to sift through in this one.
Darren
You don't need to set it, as long as the voltages are good. Re-read my response here. Unless you have changed the computer setup, you don't have to set it. If it falls outside of the supplied ranges or does not increase steadily, you should replace the sensor, or try to "tune" it.
OK, just to be complete in my investigation, I D/L the 87 Turbocoupe bin AND the 88 Turbocoupe bins and looked at how the TPS is treated.
It's exactly the same as in later years, except the range for closed throttle is 0.72V - 1.33V.
There should be no issue having these above 1V either, unless, as I said above, you turn the screw in while the engine is running, then it might stay in Part Throttle mode until you shut it off and restart it.
I do understand what you guys are saying but everyone seems to have what they believe is an acceptable range. I believe a person could now read through all the booger flicking and hair pulling and find what they needed. I would say that people have come across a couple of TPS that were out of the acceptable range and needed to be moved to get them into that range. Granted this would not be the norm but I would think it does happen.
I never saw another response from Odie and one thing I think we would all like to know (some of you may from previous threads) what year car, motor, and processor the OP is using. It appears that there are some different ranges for different processors/engine combinations? If so I would still say that setting the TPS voltage in the range of 0.90 to 0.95V would work on almost any combination. Would that be correct?
Darren
essentially, as long as the car idles, it is setup right. There really isn't any right or wrong as long as those conditions are met that I first posted. If your car drives fine and isn't throwing a TPS code, you probably did it right and won't have to worry about it for some time.
A voltage in the 0.75 - 1.2V range would work for any combination that I am aware of.
Now that that OP has a voltage range all that is left to do is to check his setup to see if it falls within this range. Since that has not been hashed out on how to do it and we don't know what the year of the car & motor size it is kinda hard to tell him which wires to probe for the voltage but my guess is they are all black, orange, & green.
This site is very good on tech articles and I thought this would be a good read for the OP. It backs up a lot of what the guys are saying:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/Mustang-TPS-FAQ.html
All that is left to do now is to check the closed position voltage range, check the TPS for smooth dead spots, and check wide open throttle voltage range. If it has a problem with any of these buy a new one, check it, and hopefully that will solve the TPS problem.
Darren
This is one that I have to say the specs don't seem to agree with the real world, I've owned 14 TCs and if voltage is above 1v they will probably idle high... May be a glitch in the TC software, as when the idle increases, you won't likely get it to idle down till the engine is shut down and restarted...
It could be related to the blade being open too far for the ISC motor to control the idle properly. If the car is idling properly and you simply 'adjust' the TPS above 1V while the engine is off, cycle the key off then start the engine, there is no reason it should idle any differently.
all i know is pretty much 100% of the time when people have checked everything and finally arrive at the tps, we tell them to set it back a little and the high idle goes away
for what its worth,, if the eec is just reading from tables and such, then we could just unhook the tps (when the car is running its best) then the eec will have to revert back to last know settings and replicate the voltage swings for the remaining life span of the car....or after 40 warm up cycles it would need hooked back up.
so in one hand those who dont belive in the adjustment are saying we could actually just not run a tps at all....
or did i miss something:D
I think you missed a whole bunch of somethings :D
I'm not talking about myself making any adjustment prior, just out of the blue there is a high idle condition that will not reduce till engine is shut down and restarted... Upon restart it may be fine for days or idle high at the next stop light, assuring the TPS voltage is less than 1v has fixed the ones I had...
So the TPS was above 1V in the first place, then suddenly it would idle high, but just cycling the key or adjusting the TPS lower would 'fix' it? I did notice that the DELTA (part throttle voltage above closed throttle) for the turbocoupe models is 0.07 volts which is higher than most other models - perhaps the "Level C" type TPS unit mentioned in the link (http://"http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/Mustang-TPS-FAQ.html") in one of the above posts (which was also 'adjustable') has more thermal drift or forms flat/dead spots more easily at idle. I wouldn't be surprised if a 22 year old sensor had some wear.
The fact that the TPS voltage was above 1V before you had an issue supports what I've been saying all along, actually, since the car was running fine before you had an issue. Since cycling the key or moving the TPS position (i.e., when you lower the voltage) changes the wiper position of the TPS, that tends to support the idea of a flat spot forming in the TPS where the wiper might bridge more than one winding and thus put the car in part-throttle mode just from vibration or heat.
Note this picture directly from the Ford manual:
(http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/tpsAdjustment.jpg)
"If the voltage reading on a nonadjustable TPS sensor is not 0.9 - 1.1V at idle, and greater than 4V at WOT, replace throttle position sensor."
Clearly the TPS was intended to be @ 1V +/- 0.1V at idle. It would be unwise to suggest that Ford didn't know how their own engine controls worked.
actually, there is no winding.
its a piece of plastic with a carbon strip adhesed to it.
the wiper is a simple brush with a dot of copper / brass / carbon on the end.
i agree though on your theory at idle. IT would also be a position visited more often than the typical 55/65mph positon where intermittants are experienced.
I was fishin but you dont know me well enough to have picked up on it.:rollin:
Avitar confirmed,,lol
Ahhh, I was wondering if it was a carbon type or wound. Same thing applies though. Ever see what happens when a carbon type pot gets burnt that controls a DC motor controller? Yikes! Almost blew the top off my airflow chamber when the motor spiked to full on!