Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: odie12372 on December 30, 2009, 10:54:25 PM

Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on December 30, 2009, 10:54:25 PM
I have a 87 Merc. Cougar LS. 20th ann. edition....5.0L (302).. Smog pump is binding up .... I can hear the bearings in it when you first start it up.... When Idling  I can stomp on the gas and get a slight Whiff of rubber burning..    Does anyone have a part number for a shorter belt? I can't really afford to replace the pump right now.. figured it would be cheaper to get a different belt..... I eliminated the cats so ... Not much sense in even running the pump... Any help would be greatly appreciated.....
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on December 31, 2009, 01:10:46 AM
I am just guessing your pretty much stock like me.

follow my advice here........... by doing what i did, you end up with the capability of using many many differnt size belts.

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=17236&highlight=short+belt&page=2
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: flipnbird on December 31, 2009, 06:40:12 AM
I am using an 85.5" belt..... no smog and under drives, I had to keep going back until i got the right size, luckily it was right up the street! If you don't have underdrives i would try an 85" belt and go from there.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 31, 2009, 07:06:05 AM
Quote from: flipnbird;304593
I am using an 85.5" belt..... no smog and under drives, I had to keep going back until i got the right size, luckily it was right up the street! If you don't have underdrives i would try an 85" belt and go from there.


Under drives require a SHORTER belt than do std pulleys...

Remove belt, wrap a string around the pulleys and mark the point they overlap... Measure string, deduct 3/4"-1" for the tentioner travel...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: cougarman on December 31, 2009, 07:12:09 AM
I really need to do this, before that air pump seizes up.:D
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on December 31, 2009, 02:44:58 PM
I guess I'll try the string trick then? I just bought a belt this morning b-4 I read this... That was supposed to be for 5.0 cougar no air... Thinking that would be short enough to by pass the smog pump... and the belt was to long even when going around the smog pump and by passing the a/c compressor it was still to long..  The one pic I seen from that link Was missing the a/c compressor... Mine still has the a/c compressor and still routed around compressor.. Let me try the string trick.........
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on December 31, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Ok here we go.... I went out there and with my string and went around the pulleys in the direction they would normally be driven.... by-passing the smog and a/c compressor. I got 70" the first time....Cut a new piece of string and done it again. And I got 70.5" So if I am reading right I need a belt at least 68 to 69"...... Right??????
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on December 31, 2009, 08:47:59 PM
Quote
I got 70" the first time....Cut a new piece of string and done it again. And I got 70.5" So if I am reading right I need a belt at least 68 to 69"...... Right??????


Well ....I went to AZ and got them to get me a belt that was 68-69 inches long...... I guess Since my car doesn't have underdrive pulleys...{DUH.... What a doufus I can be.} Reckon I should have went the other direction and added an 1.5" to my 70" Cause this belt was almost there... 1.5" short..
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 31, 2009, 09:31:57 PM
You can't bypass the AC compressor unless you have an eliminator kit, because the inside of the belt rubs on the outer surface where it passes over the top of the water pump ... Possibly you figured out a different belt wrap???
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on December 31, 2009, 09:59:13 PM
Well I see ya point..... I looked at this guys link and my setup will be pretty close to his.... And his belt was close..... Look at this link... it's the picture all the way at the bottom of the page... Well I couldn't get this link to work when I posted it... But if you go back to the first person that replied to me. The link works on theirs...







Quote
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/...rt+belt&page=2
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 31, 2009, 11:11:55 PM
That pict is of a setup without factory AC, P/S pump is mounted higher than with AC
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 01:13:41 AM
Well I'll get the longer belt in the morning...... But, still something about his is more different than just the p/s pump being mounted higher.... seems like his belt routing is different than mine...I'm going by the illustration on the factory setup just missing those to pulley's...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 01:30:43 AM
its not like you havent had your answer all day,, you just dont listen.

78'' belt  you never once said anything earlier about bypassing the AC,, but you cant per tom unless you intend to bypass the ac then ignore my post.

you got your choice,, either do up a 78'' belt and route it exactly like your stock layout and just ignore your smog,, or over complicate this:D
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 01, 2010, 08:07:58 AM
Problem is the Mustang length belt will not fit a Bird/Coug, as the A/C, P/S bracket is different on a our cars... Per Auto Zone our stock belts are 88.25"... Since the alt, smog & tentioner bracket is same, removing the 6.5" difference shown in the above diagram should mean a 81.75" belt is required to bypass the smog pump...

BUT note the Stang wrap shown is different when bypassing the smog, your mileage may vary...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 11:13:11 AM
I just added the drawing on the top right tom because i knew thats what fit the coug,, ive noticed the stang layouts are not really that applicable to our fox's unless one is duplicating a stang setup using thier brakets as well.

we need to put together our own belt routing layouts.

the one i have on the top right is bird/coug specific with factory accy.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 11:27:54 AM
Well Yall also mentioned I might have to modify my belt tensioner by moving it to 5:00 position... I got the 78" belt this morning  and when I put it on .... I seen the clearance issue.... So do I need to cut the tit off of the back of the tensioner? On mine when my tensioner all the way down with no belt it's at the 6:00 position.... and leaving it there when you put the belt back  on it touches itself....
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 12:04:02 PM
per my previous link i attached, i made the assumption that 78 would bolt right on,, that extra half inch made the difference.

my pn pictured below is 77'' although it measures out to be 77 1/2''
"060770"

maybe you shouldve gotten the 77'' belt i mentioned.  my thoughts were based around preventing the clearance issue when i bought this one so i knew i could modify the tensioner to allow for shorter.  78 may be just too long.
if your tensioner is too close to the other alternator band of belt, cutting the tentioner isnt going to do anything.

I only had to cut the tensioner in order to be able to install the shorter belt.  cutting the tensioner allowed me to rotate the tensioner the additional ccw motion to get the belt on.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 12:06:00 PM
here you can see where i cut the front of the tensioner to allow the black tab to travel more in order to install the belt.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 12:11:37 PM
I had to make three trips myself to different stores to get it right.  i know what your dealing with but bypassing that smog is a good idea for now.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 12:14:56 PM
got a pic of that belt on?
i will correct the drawing ,, i should have stuck to my guns on the drawing and put 77'' on there since thats what actually is working now on my stock setup.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 01:15:36 PM
here is a pic with everything in place...... and it shows I have no clearance when the tensioner on ..... Pic was taken with camera phone... Don't know how good the quality is ...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 01:35:47 PM
Here's three more pics if it helps..... Maybe my tensioner is just super strong or something....
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 02:29:20 PM
here's another photo with no belt and the tensioner hanging normally... @ 6:00 position..
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 02:51:48 PM
measure that belt,, i cant believe thats a 78'' belt and bottoms out like that.

start measuring on the belt and just get the lenght.  something doesnt add up.

also,
whats the pn of the belt,, cant seem to make heads or tails on whats in the pic.

something like my pn i shared earlier makes sense...
6 rib belt  = 06  (two digits reserved for ribs
77'' long= 077 (three digits for metric or inches)
0= one digit for any size less than one inch

060770
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 03:22:26 PM
duralast part#790k6
  6pk2005
 6 can x 2m
 i measured the belt and got 78 3/4 ...
 They told me that was the closest one to 78" they had...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 03:28:37 PM
too long,, like you already dont know that.

napa is where i got mine,, guess you gotta shop around.  see if they have one closer to 77 as the one you have is closer to 79.  I take it now that a 78'' belt will work.

I suspect you could even go as low as 76.5 with the modified tensioner.
I am going back out there to take mine off just to see how much mine has stretched since i put it on way back when.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 03:35:40 PM
if your alternator were adjustable wth a threaded stud/nut like you see on a lot of diesels, all your problems would be solved and the belt you have now will work.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 03:37:01 PM
so 77"belt should be on the money?
maybe i need to take my string and tape measure with me....
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 03:59:59 PM
77 to 77 1/2'' with a tensioner mod.  Even an 78 (measured) may work.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 05:08:32 PM
Went to a different autozone and they looked at me like I was a fool when I pulled out the string and tape measure... They didn't have a true 77" belt....I had to get my money back and go to Advanced autoparts.... Walked in told them what I needed 77" 6 rib serp belt dude walked right behind the counter brought me a belt and the rest is history.....I put it on out in the parking lot... I did have to do 1 small mod similar to yours to get enough pull on it to get it on.....DAYCO Part# 5060770
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 05:18:13 PM
I think this case is closed........ Thank you.......
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 05:19:06 PM
ok,, good deal

i measured mine and it sill measures 77 1/2'' long.

no stretching to this point although summer time may be a little different or even a warm motor.

glad to hear you got the belt,, i am going to change the drawing later. 

now you see what i mean by sayng a 78'' will work?

i guess the range is 77 to 78 actual inches.  a 76 may need pry'd on but still may work.
gotta get mine back on before dark.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: odie12372 on January 01, 2010, 05:29:46 PM
76.5 was the first belt I tried while ago at auto zone and it was 1/2" short from the alternator pulley..... Thats when they told me they didn't have a 77" 6  rib..... They had a 77" 7 rib.... but, to get the 77 on I had to take a screwdriver while I was pulling up and pry the tab out of the way just enough  for that extra 1/2 of pull i needed to get the belt on..... Dayco Part#5060770 We need to Keep this pic and part# on file...
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2010, 11:20:09 PM
done
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: Old_Paint on January 05, 2010, 09:45:44 PM
Ok, so if I have the old style tensioner, not the spring loaded one, same belt sizes?  Is there an aftermarket part or something easily adapted to replace the old screw-down style tensioner?  I prefer the spring loaded ones because if something gets trapped in the belt (rag, tool, etc) while the engine's running, it doesn't snap the belt or damage a pulley or break off a shaft.
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2010, 10:26:54 PM
ahhh,,
i did that type to...
here is what you need to do and my engine was a 3.8 w/ deleted AC.


leave all your smog stuff on the car.

leave the belt on the car
loosen the three bolts that hold the smog pully on
loosen belt tensioner and remove belt.
remove smog pully
pry off this little fan looking thing on the very front of the smog pump.

now,, use a string and pull in the string to measure the total lenghth belt you need.

when you install the belt,, the belt itself will just ***barley clear the smog housing.  dont worry though because it clears enough (a hair).  Mine actually touched but as soon as i started the car, the rotation of the belt shaved itself down on the smog housing ,,ended up working our perfect.

just pull your string in around all the pullys like factory then go hunting for that belt size.

good luck man
Title: Does anyone have a Part# For a shorter Belt?
Post by: maandy on January 06, 2010, 12:30:09 PM
Hy just wanted to share but I have Dayco 5060850 belt and I don´t have smog pump and I have BBK underdrive pulleys It goes like this start at A/C --> Power steering -->Water pump -->Crankshaft -->Alternator --> belt tensioner --> back to A/C  Just wondering that maybe different choices can be good cause shortest belt I had was this 5060850 belt and that´s how I find that combination.