Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: Old_Paint on August 21, 2009, 12:52:14 AM
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 21, 2009, 12:52:14 AM
I've got to replace the entire steering system on my old blue bird. The pump's whining and leaking around the seal, the hoses are dripping, the inner ball joints are worn out, and the whole system is NASTY. It's the original in the car, I know, because I'm the OO.
My question is, has anyone done this as a complete job, and if so, about how many hours can I expect to spend on it? Any sudden "Uh-oh, I don't have that tool" moments to expect?
I need this to happen soon, because I have two 15 year olds looking for permits so they can take driver's ed in school. The weird part is, Driver's Ed doesn't teach driving any more. They've got to have 200 miles logged before the instructor will let them behind the wheel. I'd much rather have them in the blue one than finding curbs and whatever else with the ground effects on the red bird. Is it something I can tackle in a weekend, assuming I have the new rack, pump, and hoses?
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Haystack on August 21, 2009, 01:01:21 AM
I would think so. I did the rack and pump in one day without taking off too much. I think I actually did it in about 4 hours, counting getting one off a 90ish mustang gt at the junk yard. You may want to get new ?bushings? for the rack. I wish I would have got some on min. Ball joints I didn't have any problem with at all. While your there, you might as well put new bearings in yours and maybe front brakes. When I did my brakes I never thought there was anything wrong. Till I pulled the disk off and all the bearings fell out. Got alot quiter and actually got better mpg.
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 21, 2009, 01:13:58 AM
Quote from: Haystack;287415
I would think so. I did the rack and pump in one day without taking off too much. I think I actually did it in about 4 hours, counting getting one off a 90ish mustang gt at the junk yard. You may want to get new ?bushings? for the rack. I wish I would have got some on min. Ball joints I didn't have any problem with at all. While your there, you might as well put new bearings in yours and maybe front brakes. When I did my brakes I never thought there was anything wrong. Till I pulled the disk off and all the bearings fell out. Got alot quiter and actually got better mpg.
Already done the rotors, bearings, and pads. Did that some time back trying to eliminate what I thought was warped rotors. Turns out the pulsing was due to the left front wobbling like a wet dog when stopping. I had a loud hammering noise because of a slight imbalance in the tires, and even put in new struts and mounts thinking those were shot. Still the hammering. Checked closer, and yep, lots of slop in the left front. Right is still tight, but as nasty as the fluid is, I'd rather just start from scratch with a clean system. I think the clean-up and rebuild on what I have would probably take a LOT longer, and probably be just as expensive.
I fully intend to put new bushings on it too. I just didn't list all the minor parts. Already know I gotta have a puller/installer tool kit. I just wasn't sure if I needed any other special tools. Good thing about getting the puller set is I have two others with EXACTLY the same pump. (another '86 Bird and a '92 F-150.) F-150 needs a new pump too, or a rebuild on the one that's there.
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: ipsd on August 21, 2009, 01:14:56 AM
First off inner ball joints? Do you mean inner tie rods? The ones located on the rack are tie rods the inner's ones are screwed onto the rack and then have a rivet type thing you smash down to hold them on. Those rubber boots cover those. Then the outters out at the wheel. Then the ball joints are in the lower control arm under the spindle. To swap the rack along with hoses and pump shouldn't be to bad. The hardest part is removing the PS pulley and that is easy it's the putting it back on that is the hard part. You do need a special tool to do that. Then might as well replace that rubber disc at the Rag joint where the rack meets the steering shaft. All in all shouldn't be too bad of a job. Make sure get things lined up really close and take it to the shop for an alignment. Depending on how hard you work and if you have air tools without a lift I'd say 3-6hrs depending. If you want an idea of the process of attack this is the order I would tackle it. 1. Remove both lines form the pump and either drain off the fluid or cap off the lower hose nipple. 2. Pull the PS pump pulley 3. Remove PS pump 4. Unhook Rag joint steering coupler. 5. Unthread the inner tie rods from the otters counting thread to keep alignment close 6. Undo the two large nuts that hold the rack onto the K member. 7. Install new parts 8. Head to alignment shop
Hope that helps
Stuckman
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 21, 2009, 02:40:57 AM
Quote from: ipsd;287422
First off inner ball joints? Do you mean inner tie rods? The ones located on the rack are tie rods the inner's ones are screwed onto the rack and then have a rivet type thing you smash down to hold them on. Those rubber boots cover those. Then the outters out at the wheel. Then the ball joints are in the lower control arm under the spindle. To swap the rack along with hoses and pump shouldn't be to bad. The hardest part is removing the PS pulley and that is easy it's the putting it back on that is the hard part. You do need a special tool to do that. Then might as well replace that rubber disc at the Rag joint where the rack meets the steering shaft. All in all shouldn't be too bad of a job. Make sure get things lined up really close and take it to the shop for an alignment. Depending on how hard you work and if you have air tools without a lift I'd say 3-6hrs depending. If you want an idea of the process of attack this is the order I would tackle it. 1. Remove both lines form the pump and either drain off the fluid or cap off the lower hose nipple. 2. Pull the PS pump pulley 3. Remove PS pump 4. Unhook Rag joint steering coupler. 5. Unthread the inner tie rods from the otters counting thread to keep alignment close 6. Undo the two large nuts that hold the rack onto the K member. 7. Install new parts 8. Head to alignment shop
Hope that helps
Stuckman
Outer ball joint is tight. Inner tie rod end, I should have called them, is what is worn. Some research leads me to believe they usually give up long before the outers. That's why I want to go ahead and put in a new rack. Apparently a worn inner end can do some damage, and I won't know if it's reuseable until I disassemble it. I can get a rebuilt rack for less than $100, and it ain't worth my time to rebuild one. Same goes for the leaky whining pump.
Alignment was certainly in the picture. It needs new sneakers too, and if I'm gonna drop a wad of cash on new rubber, I'm going to do everything I can to make them last.
I just need to get it fixed up to miinimize risk to the better cars by using it for a trainer for teen-agers. If they can manage a proper and legal 3-point turn in a Fox Bird, they can do it in ANYTHING. If it survives the teens getting their licenses, then I'll turn it into my project car. I've already trained two in it. Got two more teens to go.
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 22, 2009, 04:38:04 PM
Quote from: Old_Paint;287437
Outer ball joint is tight. Inner tie rod end, I should have called them, is what is worn. Some research leads me to believe they usually give up long before the outers. That's why I want to go ahead and put in a new rack. Apparently a worn inner end can do some damage, and I won't know if it's reuseable until I disassemble it. I can get a rebuilt rack for less than $100, and it ain't worth my time to rebuild one. Same goes for the leaky whining pump.
Alignment was certainly in the picture. It needs new sneakers too, and if I'm gonna drop a wad of cash on new rubber, I'm going to do everything I can to make them last.
I just need to get it fixed up to miinimize risk to the better cars by using it for a trainer for teen-agers. If they can manage a proper and legal 3-point turn in a Fox Bird, they can do it in ANYTHING. If it survives the teens getting their licenses, then I'll turn it into my project car. I've already trained two in it. Got two more teens to go.
I'll correct myself again. It IS a ball joint on the end of the rack. only difference between that one and the one at the wheel is that it isn't turned 90 degrees. Both inner ends were badly worn. Nearly 1/4 inch slop on the left and about 1/8" on the right. No wonder it had braking wobbles and was squirrelly as hell on the highway. Oh well, got all the new parts, so time to start the clean-up and put it all back together again. New rack is nice and tight on the ends. Haven't checked yet to see what the ratio (lock-to-lock) is, but I'm happy with the 3 turn rack.
Just for the record, there isn't really any difference in a GM or Ford PS Pump Pully Puller. (say that three times real fast) A GM puller worked just fine on my pump. Man, that thing makes some UGLY noises coming off that shaft. Was hoping to pull the rack with the lines attached (thinking how much easier it would be to put the new lines on with the rack out). Not happening, though.
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 22, 2009, 10:34:44 PM
Well, the jury is in. It is a 2.5 turn rack. Oughta make for some interesting driving with a base suspension and performance steering. VERY tight in the front end now. Got all the parts in, everything reassembled, fluid in, bled, and topped off. Nary a leak. Other than some heavy duty wrenching to press the pully back on, wasn't really that bad a job. Took a long time because I was working by myself, and have no air tools. Getting it elevated was challenging enough. That small diameter tire tends to turn my ramps into some sort of turbo sled on the slick concrete floor in my basp00get. One would slip and the other wouldn't, so didn't want the car on one, and half-way on the other. Then, once I got the back end up, I jacked the front end and put stands under the box frame right behind the front wheels. Left plenty room to work then without having to reach around the stands or banging my head on them.
New problem, though. It's been sitting a while, so I'm hoping it's just corrosion in the switch. Problem is, if I just release the key after it cranks, it dies again. When I noticed that the speedo was going dark, didn't take long to figure out what was happening there. So, crank, and slowly let off the key, it runs just fine. Well, as good as it ever did. Gonna pop the column covers tomorrow and see what I can find out. IIRC, there isn't any adjustment on the switch. No rods going down the column like my F-150. I guess I could replace it and re-use the lock-set from the original. Get that fixed, and I'll head for an alignment shop ASAP. Who knows where the toe is set now. Dunno how the heck they were aligning it before, but no one ever said diddly about the slop in the steering.
Next project will be putting a new ler on it. That oughta be fun with no aftermarket direct fit. One-piece pipe/ler from cat to tail-pipe. Gonna have to cut it and put something in. I HATE the sound of a noisy V6. It'll make a good trainer car anyway.
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: mjbtbrd on August 23, 2009, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: Old_Paint;287801
New problem, though. It's been sitting a while, so I'm hoping it's just corrosion in the switch. Problem is, if I just release the key after it cranks, it dies again. When I noticed that the speedo was going dark, didn't take long to figure out what was happening there. So, crank, and slowly let off the key, it runs just fine. Well, as good as it ever did. Gonna pop the column covers tomorrow and see what I can find out. IIRC, there isn't any adjustment on the switch. No rods going down the column like my F-150. I guess I could replace it and re-use the lock-set from the original. Get that fixed, and I'll head for an alignment shop ASAP. Who knows where the toe is set now. Dunno how the heck they were aligning it before, but no one ever said diddly about the slop in the steering.
Next project will be putting a new ler on it. That oughta be fun with no aftermarket direct fit. One-piece pipe/ler from cat to tail-pipe. Gonna have to cut it and put something in. I HATE the sound of a noisy V6. It'll make a good trainer car anyway.
Just buy a new ignition switch. It is seperate from the lock assembly. Should be under 20 bucks at any part place.
While you are there ask about an exhaust (if you are looking for stock replacement) You need the midpipe, ler, and tailpipe. If you want it to be one piece put it together with clamps, and go to an exhaust place and have them weld the joints. I even see them on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/85-86-Thunderbird-Cougar-ler-Exhaust-system-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem2c3ee4767eQQitemZ190033720958QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Put off TOO long ...
Post by: Old_Paint on August 23, 2009, 10:42:33 PM
Switch fixed. No biggie. Corner metal tab closest to driver was a bit loose, and letting the moveable contact on the slide lose contact with the stationaries (drooping at back end). Figured this out when I had no ACCY power too. Popped the covers off the column, gave the tab a little squeeze with a pair of Channel-Lock's, and bingo, good as new.
Now, gotta get some liability insurance back on it, and take it to an alignment shop.