Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Watchdevil on July 26, 2009, 11:40:36 PM
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 26, 2009, 11:40:36 PM
Hey I am a little stumped! I am generally good with my own vehicle maintenance but now I have a no run problem with the engine of the 1984 Tbird 5.0.
Today I decided to get under the hood and do some work. I changed the plugs, wires and oil.
Before I did all this today I had no problem with the engine starting and running thought it was running rough.
The first thing I did was change the plugs. All are gapped at .050. The emission label said gap between .048 and .052. All other reference material says gap at .050
Next I changed the cap, rotor and wires. I took the old cap off with the wires still attached and replaced the wires one at a time starting counter-clockwise from cylinder #1 marked on the cap. I started the car and it would not start. Then I noticed that the old wires still attached to the cap were all one position over clockwise, so the mark on the cap was not actually 1. Both the old and new cap have the 1 in the same position. I made the adjustment and the engine started andran fine. The engine ran much better after changing the plugs, wires, cap and rotor. After being satisfied with that I proceeded to change the oil.
Before changing the oil I put in some Motor Flush, ran it a few minutes and turned it off. Then I changed the oil. The engine started right up, ran good for about 3 minutes then suddenly stalled. I tried to restart it. It ran for a little bit but if I applied the gas pedal it stumbled and stalled. After that, the engine would not restart after multiple tries. A couple of times it acted like it wanted to fire up but didn't. At this point I had drained the battery and needed to jump it off using my Mustang. I let the Mustang run quite a while with the jumper cables attached to the Tbird before I tried starting the Tbird again. I attempted to start the Tbird again and now it repeatedly turns over but will not fire.
Now I am concerned. Ignition module or coil failure? Oil pump or screen clogged? Fuel starvation? God forbid no more compression? I do hear the pump prime before each start. I just added some fresh gasoline so that it would not run out before doing all the work today.
I hate this car has no oil pressure gauge. Matter of fact I did not even see an oil light. Does the "engine" light function as a low oil pressure warning? I don't recall it coming on while the engine was running. Of course it always stays on when the engine is not running or it stalls.
I feel like I could have done something wrong to make it not run anymore since I initiated work on it today. Before I had no trouble with the engine running despite running a little rough. I checked behind all my work and I don't see anything I have done incorrectly.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Haystack on July 27, 2009, 03:26:49 AM
I would see if you could test some parts or pull codes... I'm not sure if you can pull codes off an 84 the same way you can a 86-88... I am not alot of help here, sorry. I would check the PIP in the distributor.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: massCougarxr7 on July 27, 2009, 08:53:29 AM
This car sat for a number of years correct????? Im not completely sure,.. but in your fuel tank, theres a small hose that goes from your fuel pump, to the line on the tank, its probably dry rotted and is just spitting gas back into the tank... If its possible, when you try to start the car, listen for the fuel pump,.. if it kicks on... you should be getting fuel,... the other way to check, is hold open the valve on the fuel rail...while an assistant tries turning over the car,.. If gas SHOOTS out, the pump/ hose is fine, and your problem is somewhere else... But if the pump turns on, but fuel only tricles from the rail,... the hose is shot......
EDIT***** i dont know exactly what setup you have , but others will chime in to correct me if im wrong..... CFI?
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Loaded87IROC on July 27, 2009, 09:15:34 AM
I agree about the fuel pump rubber hose. My 84 V6 was in storage for years and shortly after I got it it just quit running but I could still hear the fuel pumps (it has 2) priming. I unhooked the hose from the rail mounted pump and had an assistant turn the key to prime. Nothing came out so I figured it was the in-tank pump that wasn't working and bought a replacement. When I dropped the tank (topped off full of course...) i saw that the problem was the rubber hose had pretty much fallen apart, but I went ahead and replaced the pump anyways while the tank was down. Hope this helps.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 27, 2009, 09:55:04 AM
Thanks for the replies guys! I will be certain to check that hose out. It's still strange though because before all this happened I did not seem to have any sort of fuel delivery problem. I do still hear the fuel pump prime when I turn on the key. After the first restart it was running but applying the gas pedal seemed to stall it. After that it would not start again.
Another obvious thing that I thought about is the infamous ignition module failure! This car appears to have the original Motorcraft module and yesterday was the first day I ran the engine for an extended period of time. That may also explain why it was running fine then all of a sudden it stalled for no reason and would not restart. I should go ahead and replace it anyway since it is so old.
It was getting late in the evening with no daylight to keep working on it so I spent the rest of the evening investigating for a possible diagnosis.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Loaded87IROC on July 27, 2009, 10:27:18 AM
I would make sure to check the codes and use a fuel pressure gauge before getting too far into it.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: ipsd on July 27, 2009, 11:08:27 AM
The 84 does have an oil light! Red light engine light is you oil light. When the car is running it should be OFF/unlit. Then don't forget that 84's have twin fuel pumps one in the tank and one in line next to the filter. As far as checking the codes easy to do. I've never seen the check engine light in mine to tell me when there is a code. Not sure if maybe just the bulb is out or maybe the 83-84's don't have them.
Stuckman
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: massCougarxr7 on July 27, 2009, 04:25:35 PM
if the car ran fine before, id imagine everything is fine... it really sounds like that hose...but then again, i didnt know about the second pump..(my car doesnt have it....
NOt A HIJACK ATTEMPT.......but how many of you guys think a lot of these cars were junked because someone didnt know about this pita little hose issiue???
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 27, 2009, 04:26:58 PM
im having the same kinda problem. im getting gas to the injectors but not current.i am getting 12v on one side,but not 5volts to the ground. i can jump the injectors with a battery source and they spray fine.hook everything all back up..no fire at injectors. i put on a new igniton module,still not injector fire.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 27, 2009, 11:20:01 PM
Thanks everyone for chiming in to help me. It seems everyone I mentioned this to at work today thinks it is likely no fuel pressure or delivery. I am inclined now to believe that it has to be a fuel delivery problem, especially since it kept stalling after pushing the accelerator pedal when it was running the last couple of starts before it would not start again at all. If in fact my car has two pumps I need to take that in consideration. At this point I don't believe it's the ignition module. Gotta wait until Wednesday which is my next day off to look into this. I am glad I am not depending on this Tbird to be a daily driver!
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 27, 2009, 11:23:14 PM
Quote from: ipsd;284056
The 84 does have an oil light! Red light engine light is you oil light. When the car is running it should be OFF/unlit. Then don't forget that 84's have twin fuel pumps one in the tank and one in line next to the filter. As far as checking the codes easy to do. I've never seen the check engine light in mine to tell me when there is a code. Not sure if maybe just the bulb is out or maybe the 83-84's don't have them.
Stuckman
I suspected the engine light might be the same as the oil light. I don't see a check engine light on my gauges. Talk about spartan gauges and lights! Then again I am spoiled by my 2008 Mustang and checking OBD II codes on so many newer cars.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on July 28, 2009, 07:33:10 AM
Quote from: massCougarxr7;284036
This car sat for a number of years correct????? Im not completely sure,.. but in your fuel tank, theres a small hose that goes from your fuel pump, to the line on the tank, its probably dry rotted and is just spitting gas back into the tank... If its possible, when you try to start the car, listen for the fuel pump,.. if it kicks on... you should be getting fuel,... the other way to check, is hold open the valve on the fuel rail...while an assistant tries turning over the car,.. If gas SHOOTS out, the pump/ hose is fine, and your problem is somewhere else... But if the pump turns on, but fuel only tricles from the rail,... the hose is shot......
EDIT***** i dont know exactly what setup you have , but others will chime in to correct me if im wrong..... CFI?
x 2...
My 89 Lincoln MK VII did the exact same thing. After messing with it for a long time, I took the gas tank down and sure enough the 3-4 inch long rubber hose in the tank was soft and falling apart.
Gas just trickled out of the pressure test port on the engine but the pump sounded fine.
By the way, that M7 sat around for 3 years. Gas does go bad.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 28, 2009, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;284181
x 2...
My 89 Lincoln MK VII did the exact same thing. After messing with it for a long time, I took the gas tank down and sure enough the 3-4 inch long rubber hose in the tank was soft and falling apart.
Gas just trickled out of the pressure test port on the engine but the pump sounded fine.
By the way, that M7 sat around for 3 years. Gas does go bad.
I definitely need to check that hose now that a few of you had that problem.
The gas I am using is indeed fresh although I have not kept a lot in there because it does go bad if it sits too long.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 29, 2009, 09:46:43 PM
I am definitely getting spark. Today I poured some gas in the throttle body and it ran for a few moments. It's definitely a fuel delivery problem. In the throttle body I am getting pressured fuel in the rail because I pushed in the injection service port valve and fuel sprayed out. Whether it is enough pressure there I am not sure. It does seem no fuel is coming through the injectors. It seems unlikely to me both injectors would go bad at the same exact time. I am concerned if the injectors are getting the proper voltage and pluse to operate. I still have not ruled out low fuel pressure.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 29, 2009, 09:54:12 PM
check ur voltage at the injector clips. should be 12v on one and 5 volts on the other.at both clips. thats my problem.i have the 12 v but not the 5.i was told its either the ignition module or eec.i replace dmy eec,still no voltage.im in the process of replacing the eec. u can also use jumper wires to see if ur injectors will spray.remove the injector clips,and give it some voltage.one pin will be +...the other ..- turn the key to on,let the pump give it gas.do one injector.turn off car,turn back on,do other injector
dont do it alot,may hurt the injector. try that,let us know if they will spray.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 29, 2009, 10:34:17 PM
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284446
check ur voltage at the injector clips. should be 12v on one and 5 volts on the other.at both clips. thats my problem.i have the 12 v but not the 5.i was told its either the ignition module or eec.i replace dmy eec,still no voltage.im in the process of replacing the eec. u can also use jumper wires to see if ur injectors will spray.remove the injector clips,and give it some voltage.one pin will be +...the other ..- turn the key to on,let the pump give it gas.do one injector.turn off car,turn back on,do other injector
dont do it alot,may hurt the injector. try that,let us know if they will spray.
Thanks for the info. I will try this later. I looked into the possibilty of checking injector voltage today. Something tells the injectors when to spray and I was also wondering if it is a partial failure of the ignition module or not. I am getting spark. I certainly hope the EEC didn't go bad.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 29, 2009, 11:54:30 PM
eec is 98 at advanced auto.cheaper than 2 injectors
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 30, 2009, 06:03:26 AM
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284465
eec is 98 at advanced auto.cheaper than 2 injectors
Yeah I priced the injectors! Ouch! I have a hard time believing they could both suddenly go bad.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: massCougarxr7 on July 30, 2009, 11:04:41 AM
Ummm by squirt/spray, i mean like across your engine bay,... a afew inches of distance, imo, isnt enough.....
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 30, 2009, 09:06:44 PM
Quote from: massCougarxr7;284506
Ummm by squirt/spray, i mean like across your engine bay,... a few inches of distance, imo, isnt enough.....
Thats what I thought considering 35-40 psi should shoot out like crazy! So I will be investigating everything at the tank for the problem.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 31, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
even if u had really low pressure,the injector would at least drip.if the injector isn't spraying a dribble,and u know u r getting gas to them,its electrical.IMO a good firing injector and weak pump would dribble gas.no injector pulse and you will not dribble anything :burnout:
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 31, 2009, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284615
even if u had really low pressure,the injector would at least drip.if the injector isn't spraying a dribble,and u know u r getting gas to them,its electrical.IMO a good firing injector and weak pump would dribble gas.no injector pulse and you will not dribble anything :burnout:
Well it doesn't seem like to me it's spraying a dribble. I need to check it again now that the fuel and started fluid I poured into the TBI has dried out to see if it gets wet. I am wondering if the injectors are getting the correct pulse. I quickly tested for voltage to the injectors with the key on and I need to do it again now that I have more info on the voltage I am looking for.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on July 31, 2009, 10:03:55 AM
An engine needs 3 basic things to run. Spark, Fuel, and Compression. Since the last is the most difficult to test, start with the first.
Have you checked spark? Take one of your old plugs, stuff it into the wire coming from the ignition coil to the center tap on the cap and rest the base on some bare metal (i use the neg post on the battery). Set the key to run and crank the car over a few times at the solenoid. Do you have a bright blue spark?
If you do have spark. Then plug your coil back into the cap. Can you spin the distributor body? If so, the tiedown is loose or missing and maybe you bumped it while working on it. Try rotating it left or right while cranking.
Try and dump some fuel (tablespoon or two) into the TBI with the butterfly open. Crank it over. Does it run for a few an stop? If so, then its a fuel issue.
Let is know what you find from those tests, they should identify the problem area and we can then help you home in on the issue.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on July 31, 2009, 10:13:34 AM
Here is a good way to check. If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.
Unbolt the distributor. Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached). Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise). The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop. You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing. When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.
-DZ
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 31, 2009, 11:51:13 AM
Quote from: danzajax;284636
Here is a good way to check. If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.
Unbolt the distributor. Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached). Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise). The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop. You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing. When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.
-DZ
i may be wrong but on my 83,there isnt anyway for the dist to fire the injector.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on July 31, 2009, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: danzajax;284636
Here is a good way to check. If you are comfortable re-seating/aligning the distributor.
Unbolt the distributor. Pull it free from the cam gear but leave it touching the block (leaving the wires attached). Remove the cap and with the car in run, rotate the rotor button (counter clock-wise). The injectors should fire and the spark plugs should pop. You should be able to get a good close look at the injectors firing. When do it on my MPFI with the upper intake off, I can easily hear the injector spraying.
-DZ
Thanks for chiming in to help!
I got your original post notified to my email before you edited it.
I definitely have spark.
I dumped some fuel in the throttle body and it ran fine for a bit and stalled.
It's definitely a fuel issue. Now I have to determine if the injectors are working or not. I haven't had time to work on the car in the past two days to try what you are suggesting with the pulse signal to the injectors. I need to look closer to see if the injectors are spraying.
One thing I did discover is that the insulation to all the wires going into both the ignition module and fuel injector connectors has become brittle exposing some of the wires bare in small spots. I checked to make sure none are touching or snapped in half. I definitely have to fix this issue.
Where does the injectors get a pulse signal from? The ignition module or EEC?
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on July 31, 2009, 10:50:08 PM
check ur voltage at the injectors.one injector has 2 pins.check one pin then the other with the key in the one position.should get 12v on one pin.have someone turn the car over and the other voltage should be 5v on the other pin let us know
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: softtouch on August 01, 2009, 06:15:27 PM
Let me try to answer some of your questions. The red "engine" light is duel purpose, Low oil pressure or engine overheating. Your car has no check engine light. The red wire on the fuel injectors should be 12v with the ignition in run or start. The EEC provides ground pulses to the tan wires to operate the injectors. The EEC will only pulse the injectors if the engine is turning over. The EEC knows the engine is turning over if it is receiving PIP pulses from the ignition module. (danzajax's procedure tricks the EEC into thinking the engine is turning over)
Jumpering 12v and ground directly to the injectors can destroy the injectors)
The shop manual method to test if the injectors are pulsing is : 1. Install your fuel pressure gauge. 2. Pressurize the fuel by doing several "primes" and confirm that it can hold the pressure with the pump stopped at a nominal 39 psi. 3. Unplug the fuel pump relay. 4. Crank the engine for 5 seconds. 5. The fuel pressure should drop to between 10 and 20 psi.
There is a specialized test light call a noid light for testing for injector pulses. It has connectors that match up to your injector connector. Or you can make do with a regular test light that you can use for other stuff. (note, not a self powered continuity tester type light)
So off you go to the car parts store for a fuel pressure gauge and a test light.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on August 01, 2009, 08:15:06 PM
Quote from: softtouch;284833
Let me try to answer some of your questions. The red "engine" light is duel purpose, Low oil pressure or engine overheating. Your car has no check engine light. The red wire on the fuel injectors should be 12v with the ignition in run or start. The EEC provides ground pulses to the tan wires to operate the injectors. The EEC will only pulse the injectors if the engine is turning over. The EEC knows the engine is turning over if it is receiving PIP pulses from the ignition module. (danzajax's procedure tricks the EEC into thinking the engine is turning over)
Jumpering 12v and ground directly to the injectors can destroy the injectors)
The shop manual method to test if the injectors are pulsing is : 1. Install your fuel pressure gauge. 2. Pressurize the fuel by doing several "primes" and confirm that it can hold the pressure with the pump stopped at a nominal 39 psi. 3. Unplug the fuel pump relay. 4. Crank the engine for 5 seconds. 5. The fuel pressure should drop to between 10 and 20 psi.
There is a specialized test light call a noid light for testing for injector pulses. It has connectors that match up to your injector connector. Or you can make do with a regular test light that you can use for other stuff. (note, not a self powered continuity tester type light)
So off you go to the car parts store for a fuel pressure gauge and a test light.
now what he and I both need are the voltage checks on the ignition module to see if its sending that signal to the eec. when turning over,what wires have what voltage from the ignition module. I replaced my ignition module but would love to know the voltage outputs because my wiring is suspect also.old,corroded wires etc.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: softtouch on August 01, 2009, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284851
now what he and I both need are the voltage checks on the ignition module to see if its sending that signal to the eec. when turning over,what wires have what voltage from the ignition module. I replaced my ignition module but would love to know the voltage outputs because my wiring is suspect also.old,corroded wires etc.
According to your 'public profile" you have an 83 5.0 You have an EEC III system with a Duraspark III ignition.
This is a different animal than the 84 EEC IV with the TFI ignition.
In your case the "PIP" pulses come from a crankshaft position sensor on the front of the engine and go directly to the EEC.
On the 84 the pulses come from an emitter in the distributor and go through the TFI ignition module that's attached to the side of the distributor.
In either case they are pulses and I don't know any voltage check for them.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: softtouch on August 01, 2009, 09:25:05 PM
watchdevil, You say you have spark. For normal operation the TFI will fire the coil when it gets a SPOUT (spark out) pulse from the EEC. The EEC won't send a spout pulse if it doesn't get a PIP pulse from the TFI.
The yellow wire in the TFI harness goes through a one wire connector. This is the SPOUT wire. If this connector is unplugged the TFI recognizes this and fires the coil without a spout pulse from the EEC. This is used to set the 'base timing" So it is possible to have spark without the EEC seeing any PIP pulses. However the TFI has to see the PIP pulses from the emitter in the distributor.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 01, 2009, 11:59:45 PM
Quote from: softtouch;284861
watchdevil, You say you have spark. For normal operation the TFI will fire the coil when it gets a SPOUT (spark out) pulse from the EEC. The EEC won't send a spout pulse if it doesn't get a PIP pulse from the TFI.
The yellow wire in the TFI harness goes through a one wire connector. This is the SPOUT wire. If this connector is unplugged the TFI recognizes this and fires the coil without a spout pulse from the EEC. This is used to set the 'base timing" So it is possible to have spark without the EEC seeing any PIP pulses. However the TFI has to see the PIP pulses from the emitter in the distributor.
Thank you so much for all your help! I am usually pretty good with mechanical things but I don't have much experience diagnosing complex issues as these. I have a day off tomorrow and I hope I can accomplish something.
I am very concerned about the insulation of the wires getting brittle and coming off. I did notice the yellow wire for the PIP going to the ignition module. It has it's own round connector that seperates it right near the distributor. I am very concerned that while I was working on the car to change the cap, rotor and wires and replacing the airfilter and cleaning the air filter housing that I may have disturbed the ignition module wiring in it's delicate condition. This problem I am having did not start until I undertook changing the plugs, cap, rotor, wires, airfilter and oil. Before all this the engine ran fine, just not well with old parts that needed to be replaced. Like I said after i changed all the parts, it started fine, ran for about five minutes and completely stalled.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 02, 2009, 06:09:46 PM
Well I had a chance to work on the Bird some more today.
I replaced the fuel filter. Then I checked voltage to the injectors. 12V+ at the red wires and .05 at the brown wires. I put a little fuel in the TBI. It started right up. I was able to gun the accelerator with no stumbling. I observed fuel flowing against the throttle plate and all looked good. The engine ran for five minutes and stalled again. Is there something causing the engine to possibly stall after it gets hot? I cannot get it started again. It seems the fuel injectors just quit spraying to keep fuel in the TBI.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: 1983bamabird on August 02, 2009, 07:35:24 PM
when it was running,the injectors were spraying? and i get the same voltage on mine.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2009, 12:40:52 AM
Quote from: 1983bamabird;284979
when it was running,the injectors were spraying? and i get the same voltage on mine.
Oh yeah the injectors were spraying for sure... I could see waves of fuel moving on the throttle plate...
This is fustrating with it not running again. it just keeps acting like it runs out of fuel. Fuel pressure must be the problem at this point.
The car does have two pumps. They are expensive.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: ipsd on August 03, 2009, 01:55:28 AM
This sounds all to familiar although mine is on a turbo coupe. I've got my engine compartment wiring in spaghetti mode. Looking to fix this same problem. Starts and runs then little bit after norm temp. Dies dead as a door nail. Mine seems to be a no spark issue. I only get one tach jump when I got to start it. Found many wires of questionable nature everywhere in the whole setup. Here is a pic of where I'm at on it (http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/ipsd1/Da%20Bird/Electrical/Wires.jpg) On mine the pumps are running and making pressure. Everything seems to check out and I've tired 3 different TFI's and all do the same thing. I've warrantied and got a New dizzy with new PIP still does it. Fixed many wiring problems still did it. So you see where I'm at still fixing and making it work some how. I did find some at turbo ford saying it is the E.C.T. (temp sensor for the computer) In my wiring job I did find one of those two wires broken. I'm so far in the wiring I haven't got it fixed and put back to find out if that is it. Tomorrow hopefully. Get a spark tester and see if you have spark when it does this? Mine does cold but once warmed up none.
Stuckman
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2009, 10:14:08 AM
Last night I was doing more research and discovered how the ECT works by allowing the engine to deliver more fuel when the engine is cold. When it warms up it stalls, so maybe this is the culprit.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on August 03, 2009, 10:40:47 AM
IPSD what you describe sounds like the classic ford TFI failure. It might be worth your time to try swapping in a different TFI module from the parts store. Worst case, you take the TFI back to the store for a refund.
I have a hard time believing you have a wiring issue that is that consistent with temperature. If it was a failing splice due to temp or something similar then the patient should quickly deteriorate into a complete no-run.
-dz
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: ipsd on August 03, 2009, 11:05:10 AM
Quote from: danzajax;285074
IPSD what you describe sounds like the classic ford TFI failure. It might be worth your time to try swapping in a different TFI module from the parts store. Worst case, you take the TFI back to the store for a refund. -dz
I've already swapped the TFI three times. Along with many other parts. If you want to see the full list look here http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=21034&page=2 I work at my local parts store. So warranty is not an issue. I'm not saying it is in the wiring but never hurts to get that part all lined out. Finding all sorts of things in the wiring that needed a tending to. Hoping when I get it back together today that my broken ECT wire was it. Maybe even a new ECT sensor. Hoping that gets me back in running shape.
Stuckman
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on August 03, 2009, 11:16:04 AM
Hmm...suck. I had a sorta similar situation on my 95 explorer. Turned out there was garbage in the little sample tube for the Mass Air sensor.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: softtouch on August 03, 2009, 03:23:50 PM
Does anyone pull codes anymore?
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on August 03, 2009, 08:57:37 PM
Maybe its a O2 issue. When it goes from open loop (Fuel map) to closed loop (o2 feedback) a faulty o2 tells the ECU to lean it way out. Not sure how to verify this. Just what we call in the industry a WAG.
Purchase and return?
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 04, 2009, 10:50:20 PM
I tried to work on the no-run problem again today. Dumped some fuel in and it ran for a minute then stalled. I think the culprit is really fuel pressure. I emptied the fuel from the TBI valve and not much fuel came out. Afterwards, I tried priming it again and still not much came out.
Looks like I will be looking at both the external and internal fuel pumps. I am also wondering if the fuel pressure regulator is bad.
Title: No Run Problem
Post by: Watchdevil on August 10, 2009, 10:22:44 PM
By some miracle today, I was able to dump some fuel in the TBI and it started and kept running. I verified that the injectors were working and sure enough they are. The only thing I can think of is that possibly some moisture got into the fuel lines and perhaps it finally evaporated. I did put in Seafoam the last day off I had trying to get it to start. Perhaps it stabilized. I was able to run the engine for quite a while. No stall this time. I was actually able to move the car off to the side of my house so it would no longer take up my regular parking spot in the driveway.
Hopefully it will keep running. However the engine has gray smoke coming out the tailpipe. Looks like it definitely needs an overhaul or remanufactured replacement. I also found oil dripping from the valve cover onto the exhaust manufold. Lots of work to do here, but hey I am happy it's running again!