Just wondering as to what anyone would recomend.
I have a 1987 mercury cougar LS with a V8 5.0 302 EFI.
wondering what would be the best set up for my cougar.
decided that maybe since it'll be a while before i get some cash saved for a better car due to school (school comes 1st). I might as well build up the cougar more.
so what would be better for a loud exhaust set up? H pipe or X pipe? anything i should look into? theres some videos on youtube with5.0 mustangs that have X or H pipe set ups with, loud mouth tips?
dont know much about domestics so I'm hoping for some pointers and advice on the matter.
I can get an exhaust job done through APE. basicaly I want something like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG3ujxlTmFM
nice loud aggressive sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2vg9gZ_tY
Thanks everyone.
also thinking of getting the classic bullit wheels.
theres a local shop here in town, the owner said he can give me a deal for a custom pipes from the cat and back. told me he would give me a choice of doing either X or H my choice for about $300. said he wouldnt touch the cat but would If i take it off before hand.
some people said somethign about SLP Loudmouths
also posted on a local site, someone recomended off road X pipes.
::""Off-road x pipe on modulars IMO. i have No experience with the 5.0's. I'd still do an or-x prolly. Gonna be loud, aggressive, exotic, shagual"::
on a 302, id go wth true duals
I would not worry about wasting money on an exaust with the stock 150hp 5.0L.
It gets expensive quick, as you HAVE to change out the stock exaust manifolds to shorty headers,then get o2 sensor extenders to reinstall the o2s(wires are not long enough).
Then you can install an H-X pipe but it will not bolt up to the stock rear tales so again more money, and the benefits are minor on that stock engine(5-10hp if that).
If you just want sound and don't care about performance,cut off the stock lers and run straight through pipes(cheapest,easiest and cheesiest solution for noise).
If your looking for more power on the cheap,start picking up the mustangs 5.0L HO stock parts(upper intake,throttle body,injectors,computer,heads and cam) then worry about the exaust.
You can get all of the above parts for cheaper than the exaust you speak of and make over 200hp even with the stock setup on your car.
As for the wheels,it'll be dam expensive to get stock bullits on their.
The stock bolt pattern for bullits is 5x4.5"(5 lug)your cougar is 4x4.5"(i think it's 4.5",4 lug anyways) which means you'll have to change the front spindles over to 94-95 mustang as well as it's bearings,rotors and calipers.
For the rear you'll either have to change out the axles and drums or the whole rear end.
There are much cheaper solutions(newer style rims)now in 4lug available but not bullits.
I know your new to these cars but they do get expensive to change over to what most mustangs already have stock.
Due to the fact that when they where built ford could not have anything compete with it's precious mustang(not the sarcasim) so they where built with a low output v8(SO V8) and py suspension parts not geared for performance unless you bought an xr7 or turbo coupe.
how about those SLP loudmouths?
would that give me the tone im looking for possibly?
the guy at the local shop said he can make me a custom Fit X or H pipe my choice and if i wanted he would make them OR pipes.
what about just the x or H setup with teh SLP's?
Install some stock Fox Mustang headers,then buy a bolt on H or X pipe and finish the exhaust.I like the X-Pipe better,but that's my own opinion.The lers will have a big play in to what the car sounds like either way you go.If you drive the car a lot,make sure what noise levels you can tolerate for a long time.I drove my Sport with dumps on it for a few months and got sick of it.Too loud for too long.I sometimes do highway driving and like to hear the stereo as well.The drone drove me crazy.It all depends on what you like on your car though.
well I was thinking about the Off road X pipes and leave it at that or possibly the Xpipes with SLP loudmouths.
Would like something that has a nice tone that is kind of loud at normal driving but will Roar agressivly at high RPMS.
(looking to see if they make bullit's with 4 lug applications. dad also said ot check out some old centerline wheels.) the solid dish with the five 3" holes.
He don't listen to well do he????????????
They don't make bullits in 4lug at all, and the exaust is just for noise not performance at your levels.
I totally agree with dominator, spending $300 on exhaust is a waste given the fact that you have a stock 150hp 5.0. I did it on my car when it still had the SO 5.0 in it, but I had all the stuff laying around, it didn't cost me a dime.
But, if you insist on doing exhaust, I would recommend an H-pipe...everything I've seen with X-pipes sound higher pitched. And stay away from SLP Loudmouths...you'd be spending a lot of money for a shiny hollow can...an old coffee can would literally have the same effect.
Good luck,
Don
lol stubborness shows determination lol.
how about the old centerlines? solid with the five 3" holes. dad was showing me those. Or are those 5 lug only aswell?
any recomendations on the flowmasters? super40, turbo etc?
Dynomax super turbo....
Random thought.
yes/no/ maybe?
longtubes+xpipe+magnaflow (unsure of which magnaflow)
cant seem to find any videos of 5.0's that are mostly stock except for the exhaust mod so i may get an idea of what.
would love to have the extremely loud agressive roar when I gun it. but still have a good tone that i not too loud at normal driving conditions so i can talk to company in the cabin.
(appologies if i seem....needy on the info.) 1st car, never really read into domestics, though always liked muscle and the sound.
thanks a million to all that helped with info since my first day. ^.^
i have an X you can liston here this before i put on my s, its still loud though. but you might also be looking for the lump of a cam
http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii266/BillyInnes/?action=view¤t=MOV01803.flv
As far as not doing it because you have the lo-po 150 horse engine,I disagree.If you ever decide to go H.O power (do the H.O upgrade),you'll need better exhaust anyway,do it and you'll be ready for further upgrades down the road.If you want cheap,as I stated,get some factory Mustang headers (usually $20-$30 a set),and a factory H-Pipe and hollow out the cats.You can get those same parts from a Mark VII as well,then finish off the pipes to the rear of the car at any decent ler shop.
So now for the money your talking about with long tubes and a complete exaust for a loss of low end torque and no real hp gain do you want to go faster or just sound like it????????????????????????????????????????? as that will not increase the speed of your car what so ever(personally i like to go faster rather than have every honda civic beat my loud low hp v8 and get laughed at).
Your obviously asking for advice and several people have said don't bother with the exaust but instead make the engine at least mustang spec, you have not heeded that but just ignored it.
You do not have a 5.0L as you put it,yes in displacement it is the same but it is not anywhere near the mustang 5.0L that you so covet.
Your v8 only puts out the hp of a honda 4cyl.
So instead of trying to make your low hp v8 sound like a high hp v8 why not make the v8 perform like a v8 then put an exaust on it.
As far as what vinn said about doing the ho upgrade and needing the exaust,he is right in some sense but you can do the ho upgrade stuff and not do the exaust and still have over 200hp with the y pipe and manifolds.
50hp is better than 0-5hp!
IINES I like the sound of the exhaust yours has. not extremely loud but not quiet either. something thats loud when you gun it but not so loud at normal driving conditions where you cant carry on a conversation in the cabin.
Vinnie, ont he headers im suspecting from atleast a 85-89 mustang correct? I know most people wouldnt go for this but what if I grab a set of headers from a pick-n-pull? sorry for the ignorance but what exactly is H.O?)
But best bet/ well check list for things to grab at a pick-n-pull (if recomended getting there) stock 85-89 mustang headers, stock H-pipe.
would getting these from a yard be a good idea as long as they seem in decent condition? Is there anything else I should look for to grab? Does everything line back up perfectly?
Ebay? (i know buyer beware) but would this be a better idea? found these just browsing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COUGAR-MUSTANG-1986-93-SHORTY-V8-HEADERS-289-302-5-0_W0QQitemZ370156866242QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item562f118ac2&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116
also found some patriot headers, all seem to run about $110-160. for what its worth would it be the better idea to just get new replacement headers or should some headers form a yard be alright?
H.O. stands for high output. http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/ho_conversion.html
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/50dualexhaust.html
Read up.
If anything your going to lose power with a set of long tubes, they're impractical for the car and a PITA to install from what I hear. This is the setup I'm going to do on my car, I think it should fit your budget.
Set of Mustang exhaust manifolds, they're factory but they look aftermarket, I'm not too sure of what years their on but look at every fox body you can find at the yard. -$30
H-pipe. eBay; but I'm cheap so swap meets or junk yards.
lers, whatever the hell you want. I hear the Summit brand are better quality and sound nicer than Flowmaster 40's, besides everyone and their Grandma has a set of those. Go classic if ya want (Cherry Bomb glasspacks), or Thrush or something! Theres so many choices, my old man has a set of Dynomaxes on his pickup but I'm not a fan of them, his truck sounds like a diesel when its a cammed 383.
And if ya want, you could get tails, I'm just gonna dump mine though. As I don't race in this car, its just a cruiser, treat it as one.
Go around to ler websites, they usually have sound clips.
well, if you want a REALLY agressive roar coming from the car just take the egr valve off and run it like that, but it wouldnt help with the trying to talk to company thing.
heres a thought, have you looked into those power operated exhaust devertor things? it works kinda like a exhaust block off plate.
weld it to the exhaust, wire it up and when you want some noise just press a button and when you dont press it again.
i think they are less than 150 bucks
Good write up and good knowledge however there are some errors in Eric's writeup.
It does say they are optional component changes but they are not at all required.
The idle air,egr valve and bap sensors work perfectly from the SO to the HO,heck i'm still using these stock SO parts on my 500hp Supercharged HO with not a problem and it is also mass air converted.
I really would not say that the upper intake and throttlebody are optional.
I'd say they are a must for proper performance+there super easy and cheap/cheap to find,i threw my old one out as no one wanted it.
If your looking for the HO cam and injectors to get started i have a set cheap,pm if interested.
After that all you'll need is the heads,upper intake setup and eec, that can be had for under 200 bucks.
k so i may go to the local yard tomorrow to look for parts They definately carry the older mustangs, lots of them.
so as for a check list, i'll need to look for and get.
mustang: headers, H-pipe, (anything else?)
my choice of lers.
right?
Grab the header bolts as well,and the h-pipe hanger from between the tranny mount and tranny.It holds up the factory H-Pipe.I never used one for mine,but,it can't hurt.
I just used the factory one. The other H-pipe hanger just, uh, hangs there :hick:
While under those Stangs,maybe one will have some nice lers for you.I use 40 series Flowmasters.Sounds deep and a little mean at idle,not too loud,but when you hit the gas,it roars.
when i go to the pick-n-pull. If i find some mustang headers and H pipe. will there be anything else that i need to swap the pipes?
my cougar is only single exhaust. just wanting to make sure i know all what i need before i go grab it.
all i know to grab is 86-89 mustang headers with header bolts and stock H-pipe with hanger. anything else I need?
I think that covers it, unless someone else has a suggestion. Bring a can of Break Away or WD-40, those bolts can be a bitch sometimes.
Actually,'86 to '93 Mustangs.Once you acquire an H-Pipe and headers,you will need a ler shop to complete the rest.They'll have to add a little pipe between the lers and H-Pipe,and from the lers back.Not too expansive.Getting the parts is the big part.After that,you can store them until you have the rest of the parts then you're golden.
might sound ignorant but i thought the cougar had manifolds?
so everything bolts up perfectly I just need an exhaust shop to take care of getting it on after i get the H pipe.
Your cougar does have manifolds and a mustang h or x pipe will NOT bolt up to them.
I installed most all of mine by myself,but I had to have the exhaust shop lengthen the Stang tail pipes and lengthen the mid pipes for me.Nothing to it.I could've done it but I didn't want clamps anywhere.I like it welded with the factory ball and socket joints for removal and installation."Factory-like"
As stated above,your car has factory cast iron exhaust manifolds.The3 Mustangs have factory headers.
They can be had pretty cheap too, got mine off of ebay for like 33 bucks shipped.
I love how the mis-information about longtube headers flies around...it comes up EVERY time an exhaust thread is started.
Longtube headers do NOT cause a drop in torque....it's the improper sizing of the primary tubes that DO cause a drop in torque. That's not the header's fault, it's the person who wants huge 1 3/4" primaries on their HO with a CAI who is at fault. When infact 1 5/8" primaries are just a hair too large for a stock HO...
It's like buying a cam thats WAY too big and then being unhappy with it because it's a slug with your stock 1800rpm stall convertor an 2.73 gears.
Picking the right parts isn't a -shoot when going aftermarket, you have to know what you're doing...or at least have a good idea...lol.
Definitely try to find a factory H-pipe and have the exhaust shop keep piping to 2 1/4" MAXIMUM...running 2 1/2" pipes with the SO 5.0 and an AOD will destroy torque and any hopes of decent fuel economy in stop-and-go driving.
You can also source the HO headers from Lincoln Mark VII's as well as their H-pipes, it's the same thing. I believe on the Mark VII's, your looking for '87 or '88 up to '92.
Good luck,
Don
You also need O2 sensors with longer wires, O2 sensor extensions, or to solder and extend the current O2's.
I don't understand this line of thinking. Your motor is like an airpump. The more bends and restrictions you have, the less efficient the setup is as a whole. HP is a measurement of torque and the other way around. I don't see how you could gain one and lose the other by making it more efficient.
And if your going to an H.O. setup later on, why would you even consider getting 2 1/4 pipes? If I had enough money I would be going with 3" duals. A bigger exhaust will always show power over a smaller one, just like swapping intakes. No one says that swapping on a H.O. intake kills torque.
No it won't.
An engine requires a certain amount of back pressure to function correctly at given performance levels.
If you ran open headers on an SO for instance you would loose a substantial amount of torque due to the complete loss of backpressure(exaust scavenging).
Quote:
Exhaust Scavenging
When an engine starts its exhaust stroke, the piston moves up the cylinder bore, decreasing the total chamber volume. With the exhaust valve open, the high pressure exhaust gas escapes into the exhaust manifold or header, creating an exhaust pulse comprising three main parts: The high-pressure head is created by the large pressure difference between the exhaust in the combustion chamber and the atmospheric pressure outside of the exhaust system. As the exhaust gases equalize between the combustion chamber and the atmosphere, the difference in pressure decreases and the exhaust velocity decreases. This forms the medium-pressure body component of the exhaust pulse. The remaining exhaust gas forms the low-pressure tail component. This tail component may initially match ambient atmospheric pressure, but the momentum of the high- and medium- pressure components reduces the pressure in the combustion chamber to a lower-than-atmospheric level. This relatively low pressure helps to extract all the combustion products from the cylinder and induct the intake charge during the overlap period when both intake and exhaust valves are partially open. The effect is known as scavenging. Length, cross-sectional area, and shaping of the exhaust ports and pipeworks influences the degree of scavenging effect, and the engine speed range over which scavenging occurs.
The magnitude of the exhaust scavenging effect is a direct function of the velocity of the high and medium pressure components of the exhaust pulse. Performance headers work to increase the exhaust velocity as much as possible. One technique is tuned-length primary tubes. This technique attempts to time the occurrence of each exhaust pulse, to occur one after the other in succession while still in the exhaust system. The lower pressure tail of an exhaust pulse then serves to create a greater pressure difference between the high pressure head of the next exhaust pulse, thus increasing the velocity of that exhaust pulse. In V6 and V8 engines where there is more than one exhaust bank, Y-pipes and X-pipes work on the same principle of using the low pressure component of an exhaust pulse to increase the velocity of the next exhaust pulse.
Great care must be used when selecting the length and diameter of the primary tubes. Tubes that are too large will cause the exhaust gas to expand and slow down, decreasing the scavenging effect. Tubes that are too small will create backpressure against which the engine must work to expel the exhaust gas from the chamber, reducing power and leaving exhaust in the chamber to dilute the incoming intake charge. Since engines produce more exhaust gas at higher speeds, the header(s) are tuned to a particular engine speed range according to the intended application. Typically, large primary tubes offer the best gains in power and torque at higher engine speeds, while smaller tubes offer the best gains at lower speeds.
Many headers are also resonance tuned, to utilize the low-pressure reflected wave rarefaction pulse which can help scavenging the combustion chamber during valve overlap. This pulse is created in all exhaust systems each time a change in density occurs, such as when exhaust merges into the collector. For clarification, the rarefaction pulse is the technical term for the same process that was described above in the "head, body, tail" description. By tuning the length of the primary tubes, usually by means of resonance tuning, the rarefaction pulse can be timed to coincide with the exact moment valve overlap occurs. Typically, longer primary tubes resonate at a lower engine speed than shorter primary tubes.
Some modern exhaust headers are available with a ceramic coating. This coating serves to prohibit rust and to reduce the amount of heat radiated into the engine bay. The heat reduction will help prevent intake manifold heat soak, which will decrease the temperature of the air entering the engine.
Similar aspects apply when an intake is too large or too small.
Dual 3" exaust is way too large and you would suffer the same fate.
3" exaust would be a requirement at around 5-600hp levels.
I run 2.5" on my 500hp setup and it works excellent.
Your first statement is partially true...horsepower is calculated from torque...but it certainly does NOT work the other way around...torque is a measurement of torsional forces(twist) and that's it. A larger exhaust will NOT always show more power...that's the "bigger is better" trap that a lot of people fall into.
Increasing airflow will make the engine more willing to run at higher RPM's...but always at a loss of low speed torque. Too large of an exhaust may gain you 5 hp over 4,500rpm, but at the same time, the torque curve shifts higher and you lose valuable low speed torque. Any loss of low speed torque will greatly affect acceleration in an AOD car.
It's all about the "power under the curve"...peak power and torque numbers are all fine and well, but it's about how broad you can make the torque curve.
Dominator, thanks for writing that up...saves me some hassle. Now if people will only read it! lol
That must be why alot of people run open headers at the track then.
Only when it's right for THEIR combination. I've seen dirt track cars run varying length extensions from their header s to tweak the torque curve for particular tracks.
If you have a flyweight mustang with 4.10's or more and a stick with a nice H/C/I, then you aren't worrying about low speed torque anyway. The fact of the matter is, most guys just THINK that bigger is better...and if that's the case, none must be the best! I've seen a lot of guys running open headers who are in the 13's and 14's...it's a dumbass idea at that point.
FWIW, I've also seen back to back dyno tests(same day, same car) every exhaust system made more power and torque than open exhaust...and this was on a car making 365-385rwhp.
Everything Dominator posted previously is SPOT ON, there is no B/S there. If you choose to follow the path of a few idiots...be my guest, we're only trying to guide people down the right path(while explaining why).
Good luck,
Don
I've also seen a dyno sheet of a stock 87-88 mustang with a chip to correct the air to fuel mixture moving from the stock exhaust to duel 3.5" and gained all over the board, including low end. When you change your exhaust you also change the air to fuel ratio as read by the O2's. If you tune your car to run with open exhaust it will run fine on open exhaust. I really wish I could find it.
"1. There is an overly common practice to try to generalize everything using one simple metric..... and ... BTSTDT, in this case a x" exhaust system is not required for a setup making less than "y" HP....
2. The way I have always seen, noticed, confirmed a better engine behavior has been by either running open headers, or tuning the open exhaust with some old school "stingers", and "equalizing" the intake to the better exhaust flow. Simple breathing basics..... if you can exhale better, make sure you compensate on the inhalation cycle.
3. As with #2, a bigger ID exhaust system (aside the header configuration which does affect with a bigger impact) past the collector/extension... sort of, kinda, better simulates an open header situation.
4. The focus is usually placed, erroneously , in the "velocity" of the exhaust flow rather than the flow itself.
5. The scavenging effect is usually mentioned to justify the velocity over the lesser flow of the tubing yet, it has always been my understanding and results, that the pulse based scavenging is concentrated at the header-extension level after which, an unobstructed flow takes importance over velocity.
6. Anytime an open header or bigger exhaust ID system setup drops in performance, the cause is not excessive exhaust..... it's a lack of A/F."
kinda like the guy who swears by the flowmasters with 350hp, until he pulls them off and gains 35RWHP.
All of the quotes here are from guys that run a minumum of 3" exhaust on cars with anywhere from just cammed to full out race cars, and most are driven daily. several have ran 3.5" and wished they went bigger.
If you would like to follow more of Haystack's line of thought there is some excellent information on sbftech.com in the myths and rumors section regarding exhaust size (3" exhaust too big for a 302). If you are new to that site you need 10 posts to have access to the section.
There's a wide variety of hot rodding "lore" which has been accepted as fact for decades dispelled there (ie: the need of back pressure in exhaust and the ever classic: small cylinder heads make more torque because they create more "velocity"). It's well worth the read (and there is a lot there to read), but be prepared, it can really stretch your thinking. The indoctrination of the old school stuff is pretty hard to set aside.
After re reading alot of what I posted, I sound pretty pen 15y, and believe me, this is not the case. I have not modified my car much past stock and don't plan to. But I am just trying to share information that will help someone who has not looked into it so much. I am not trying to sound pen 15y or like a know it all. I just really think that having 2.5" exhaust is way to small for a v-8, at virtually any power level. being as civics with 3" exhaust gain everywhere and only have 1.5 liters N/A, I don't see how a 5.0+ liter v-8 couldn't use more then 2.5" duals.
Tried and true, repeatable results on a chassis dyno speaks volumes more than someone with a bunch of "theory".
I agree that running open headers on a STOCK 5.0 mustang and retuning the A/F curve will pick up HP...over a STOCK system...because you're eliminating 4 catalytic convertors and any other possible flow restriction...HOWEVER...it WILL pick up more power and especially low speed torque, with a properly sized system.
I guess companies who manufacture exhaust systems know absolutely NOTHING....some have been doing it for more years than many of us have been alive, but still haven't figured it out yet...they've got nothing on "theory".
As for those honda's with 3" "pipes"...I'll bet donuts to dollars there is a massive 1 3/4" to 3" adapter just in front of their fart cans...I see it day in and day out....hence why they are "stupid ricers".
FWIW...flowmasters make much more power and torque @ the 350+rwhp range than open pipes. Dyno charts prove it. I'll have to dig up the article...because it's not B/S.
Think about it...years of well-proven results VS. "theory"...seriously.
-Don
I also like reading all the MMFF articles where they pick up XRWHP and then you read the actual build on the internet where they swapped everything out but the block. Dyno's don't really show anything. You take a car to the track and it runs faster, the car is faster. You throw a 100lbs flywheel on the car and the peak HP would still be pretty close, but it would be a turd on the road. And before you start talking theory, then you really should get over there and start reading.
There are guys with right around 300hp bragging about it, and every other person throws in that there car should be good for 10's. Reading the MM&FF, they have problems getting a 550hp car with a supercharger to run 12's most of the time and the "E -cam" is the end all. I know this is not true. I'm not saying you can't run an alphabet cam, but there really isn't any reason to.
A lighter flywheel will make it feel like when leaving stops. I know multiple people who've used aluminum flywheels on the streets and hated it...you lose so much rotating inertia that it's much harder to get going without stalling, once moving however they're great. How we got on to this topic, nobody knows.
Believe what you want man, I guess some people just have to learn the hard way.
Good luck,
Don
Backpressure is NOT the same thing as exhaust scavenging or pressure wave tuning.....If I shove a banana on each of the collectors of an open header type exhaust; it sure as heck aint gonna help none.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0505em_exh/index.html
Dynomameters are tools. They can tell you engine output at certain RPM's and are helpful in determining possible other changes in the car driveline and can give a good baseline. FWIW-- they showed me just how much power I gained on a simple re-tune and that my A/F ratio is good. Remember; everything working together is what makes the car run how it does. It's about the combo ;)
Theory is the basis. In reality stumbling blocks like a cramped engine bay, interference from other components (steering shaft for one), and cost effectiveness (a BIG issue on the OEM side) are the things to work around. Different companies might attack those stumbling blocks differently; hence different results.
This goes back to the overall combo. A shiznit suspension and hard tires will win over ANY 550 HP motor. And the E-cam makes a GREAT paper weight IMHO....
There are N/A S197's that make less power than me that are just as fast in the quarter.....I have a feeling I get MUCH better gas mileage and I know I have more top end, not to mention I'm not spinning my motor to the moon on a road trip.
In the end; it all boils down to what the person wants from their vehicle. No 2 people want the same
exact thing. Except Camry owners :hick:
Also,H-Pipe or X-Pipe,once they are bolted on (say for example,both of them are off road pieces),you're not going to "feel" a difference in the seat between the two.Just grab one you can afford and bolt it on.
Not sure about that,i always heard x pipes where better for low end torque.
What I mean is,they'll make a difference over stock parts easily,but between the H and X,I don't think you'd tell a difference.If you removed an off road H-Pipe,and replaced it with an off road X-Pipe,I think you'll hear a difference,but not feel a difference.
I've heard the exact opposite... :dunno:
I've also heard that the X will usually be quieter....
Yet another interesting read:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/exhaust_system_installation/index.html
;)
I agree that the X-Pipe would be quieter.....but,that kind of depends on the chosen lers in the end.
Well, let's say that the headers and lers were unchanged then ;)
Well,in that case,I'd say the X-pipe would be more quiet than the H-Pipe............but you still wouldn't feel a difference between the two in the seat of the pants.LOL.
I'd like to see averaged HP/TQ numbers across 2500-6000 RPM between an x pipe set up for my current exhaust and my existing H-pipe.....
Over a span like that -- you WOULD feel a 10 average hp/tq difference.... ;)
Peak #'s are for advertising.....Average #'s are for driving:burnout:
That's a good question.I'd like to see the numbers as well.I'm sure that 5.0 mag or MMFF has done some kind of testing.I may try to find that afterwhile.I'm using the X-Pipe and like the sound better than the H-pipe I had.Send me your H-Pipe,and when I hit the dyno again I'll get the numbers and then send the H-Pipe back.........LOL.
They're both better than the stock Y pipe. Case solved :p
I can live with that.
Perhaps I should also add CRUSH BENT tubing. The stock setup is about as bad as you could get.
Exhaust manifolds - alright
Crush bent Y pipe - bad
Single small catalytic converter - horrible
Another Y pipe (88 Sport) - no worse off than earlier up the exhaust stream
Two pipes of whatever size and two lers - flow more than the first half of the exhaust could ever hope for. GREAT for scavenging though, similar to the concept in that Carcraft article.
X vs H is pretty much all preference or what you can get for cheap. I run an X just because it was dirt cheap and came with lers/high flow cats/piping. Unless you're pushing 400hp+, small restrictions won't be noticed anywhere but the dyno.
True. It's amazing how far most exhaust systems have come.
The S197's have 2.5" mandrel bent stainless steel tubing from the factory. Their systems flow VERY well -- including the stock lers.
A ler swap on them is for sound only in most respects. SOme of the aftermarket axle back ler kits have shown to flow less than the stock system :screwy:
I've seen ler tests on the S197's...between stock, no ler and a slew of aftermarket stuff, there was maybe an 8hp difference and like amount of torque...on a car with a CAI, pulleys, and a tune.
Pretty much just a sound aspect as you said.