Hey, just wanted to let you all know there is a thunderbird out there running and driving around with a 3.8SP out of a 2003 mustang with a 4bbl on it, 3G swap, Electric fan, etc. It ONLY took me about 8 months to get it done. :)
:ttiwwp:
X2 :beatyoass:
So, have ya ever given a thought to the 4.2 internals...?
And pics X3! ;)
I'd be more interested if it was kept EFI, but interesting none the less. ;)
Post up some pics.
Doh! I knew I was forgetting something. Now, I know what you're all gonna say, "Your paint sucks"
"Why'd you cut a great big hole in the hood?"
"Why is your engine bay so dirty?!" and
"Why isn't that scoop attached properly?".
---So, the paint is bad because the previous owner gave it a cheap paint job, and I have not fixed it yet,
there's a great big hole in the hood for the ginormous aircleaner that sits at a goofy angle,
the engine bay only LOOKS dirty because the paint is worn off,
and the scoop isn't attached, because, well, I've just spent 8 months getting the motor to work and I have not gotten that far yet. So there.;)
The gauge panel pictured is CNC'd aluminum :)
--As far as the internals go, I'm just happy she runs right now. When time and finances allow, I will be upgrading the motor further, definitely stroking it out, possibly adding a blower. So, without further ado, here's your pictures:
Check out the purdy 3G alternator. :) Thanks to JeremyB and everyone else who contributed to the Alternator swap threads!
Thats pretty cool. What intake is that?
That would be a Morana V6 Racing 2pc 4bbl special. Has anybody noticed that the EGR is still hooked up? She did fly through emissions earlier this month.
Also, does anybody have a preference on Spark plug wires? She needs a new set, and there are just so many choices!
Also, the electric fan out of an '01 Mustang is LOUD!
I like Autolite pro series wires. Nice intake. I almost swaped a 3.8 into my old ranger. It had H-beam rods, ross pistons, compcam, and ported heads. It dynoed 300 horses on our engine dyno with that intake and a 570cfm street avenger holley. We built it for someone and the guy never picked it up. My boss told me I could have it but I didnt feel like getting into a big project and I couldnt park my DD long enough for the install.
It was one of the split port motors? Built and free? And you turned it down!?:D
Well, it definitely took some modifications to make it work, as I reused my front end accessories.
That is really cool. Hows the butt dtno?
Is the bottom part of that intake a stock Ford piece, or is it a custom casting? I'm just wondering why, if it's a custom casting, would Morano Racing bother with a two-piece design instead of a traditional dual or single plane intake...
Did you put '83-'87 accessories on a 2003 block?
I like to think so.
The dyno reads "Fun!" But I do need to make improvements to the rest of the drivetrain to take advantage of this motor.
Heh, yes, the lower intake is stock ford, the upper intake comes as an adapter plate and a riser, which is what you mainly see. It mounts the carb up there pretty high, so I think sometime this year I may end up working on a conversion manifold that replaces the lower intake entirely.
Also, as a side note, the manifold ordered from Morana was found to be not flat for shiznit on the parts that count(Bottom of adapter plate, carb mount) So I had it machined to flat, your experience may vary.
Yep. That's what I had so that's what I used. I thought about using new ones, but I asked about the accessories for the motor when I bought it and they wanted 50-100 per piece or some fool thing, so I politely declined and made what I had work. And it works rather nicely.
Although, we will see what the AC shop has to say on Wednesday.
I've been wanting to put a modern pulley set on my '87. Was too lazy to look at the set on my '02 motor that is going in my '85. Reckon I'll put a new set on whenever I get off my arse.
You know, I should probably find out which way the water pump is SUPPOSED to turn, quickly. So, anybody out there with a new(99-03) v6 mustang want to let me know which way the pulley turns?
You just want to change the pulleys? Or swap the brackets and everything for modern components? Because I had to space out all my components about... .5"-1.5" Somewhere in there, to get them to line up correctly. so I would guess to line up the new stuff with the old crank you would have to trim them down?
The water pump is a reverse rotation pump (it runs off the back side of the belt). It should spin in the opposite direction the crankshaft spins. From what I can see of your belt routing you should be OK.
Phew, I was pretty sure that I had checked that, but had a little moment of panic there.
That's a pretty neat swap. Cool.
I have wanted for years to have a hi-po V-6 Ford engine that could take about 15 lbs of boost like Buick's GN. Unfortunately, SVO discontinued their V-6 racing stuff.
Does the Ford V-6 guys have a website for info?
v6power.net is pretty good, but I've only just begun to explore it. There is a guy over there named Chris Torres(sp?) that was running 9-12PSI of turbo on a stock bottom end like mine, but these motors came with a factory stud girdle for cryin' out loud.
hmm begining to sound interesting, has anyone used a 94 3.8v6 in these? what did you have to chenge to put the 03 stang engine in?
I don't know about the '94, but in general(Excluding the SuperCoupe), the rolling assemblies before 99 weren't that strong. IIRC, the '99-up has lighter rods and pistons, stronger block, better heads(Twin port) and hydraulic roller cams. I cannot remember the differences between the 80's 3.8 and the early-mid 90s 3.8, but I don't think they were that different. Skinny lob flat tappet cams, no stud girdle, py heads, etc.
As far as what I HAD to do to make this motor work was to space out my accessories, modify the heater hose/routing, manufacture an EGR spacer(Because everyone knows that it would be too easy for a company to just sell one!) for the carb, make new tubing for the EGR, clearance the head and lower intake for the distributor, purchase a modified distributor and upper intake from Tom Morana, rebend the head pipes of the exhaust, change out the s(You need to get these off the donor car because you can't buy them), modify the transmission kickdown, have new Transmission cooler lines made and add a trans cooler, cut a big ass hole in my hood, mount a remote fuel pump, make a new throttle cable bracket, and a bunch of other small things. The throttle cable should technically be changed out for a longer one, but it JUST has enough play to get it there.
Keep in mind my car was originally carburated, and keeping this motor fuel injected will require much more than I did.
Mac Longtube headers FTW! lol. Awesome swap...isn't the split port 200hp right out of the gate?
Longtubes? Who said anything about those? Although I wouldn't mind having a pair..
Thanks, the FI Windstar is an even 200, the mustang, for some inane reason has 190hp - Fuel injected.
It had super coupe heads. The main reason I turned it down was I didnt know what I would have owed him and he was a back stabbing a$$hole. I also didnt have a tranny for it. Plus Id rather put the money in to my cougar. Its a better project in the long run.
Yes yes, I see now...
------------------------
I need to change something else in my drivetrain, anyone have a set of 3.73's for a 7.5"?
Balanced(Mine isn't) Aluminum(Why not upgrade?) drive shaft that fits a C-5?
How about a 2800 Stall converter?
No? Well OK fine then! :D
I beleave it has the same bellhouse bolt pattarn as the SB V8. I would switch to a better trany like a C4, AOD, or T5. I dont know anything about C5s but they do make alot of upgrades for the tranys I listed. I have a AOD that needs rebuilt, you can have it if you pick it up.
lol i have a set of 3.73's but they are in the stock car, have a steel c5 driveshaft,but i cut it taking out the c5 that i thought dad was gonna need...
I believe the main increase is due to the Windstar intake. It won't fit under a stock hood though!
No they just wanted the minivan mommas to whoop on the v6 mustang punks.
A c5 IS a c4, but with a lockup converter (which is good for a driver) and metric fasteners.
86TBuzzard - Did you end up with 3.73's from the factory, or do you stock car race?
Bruce M - My previous research indicates that you are correct, it is a Smallblock V8 bolt pattern. Also, I appreciate your offer of the AOD, but I don't believe I'll be making it out to the east coast anytime soon.
you do need a few things that would help like
3:73 gears with limited slip
mac longtube headers(look under 99-03 mustang) and exhaust
then that would make a difference. if you go to a salvage yard look for a aerostar van with a 7.5 rear end. they have 3:73 and 4:10 gears from the factory they will fit your tbird.
Wish I had known the Aerostar's rearend was 7.5, I would have grabbed the gears when I pulled the driveshaft last time I was at the yard. I have a 7.5 Trac-Loc rearend out of a stang already. Bummer that I can't just swap the whole rear end into the bird, but I believe there are various length differences involved.
Already have 2 1/4" Dual Pipe exhaust w/ Hiflow Cat, can't get dual cats due to emissions regulations.
I'm not sure the longtubes would give me all that much unless I A) Put a blower on it, or B)Did a port job on it. The Factory shorty headers are pretty spiff already.
But really, I believe the 5-Speed would be the best overall upgrade.
I am pretty sure the mustang stuff is the same length as your car as far as the axle goes.
Additional Info:79-93 Mustang 7.5" axle
First, CLARIFY yourself. "Axle" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. To some it's an entire loaded rear end, to others it's just a housing, while to others it's just an axle.
There is SO much "pretty sure" and "I think" info floating around about this subject that we even have 3 sticky threads on it in the Driveline section of this forum, with multiple others from folks who asked before looking.
If you aren't positive, don't guess. Better yet, use the resources we already have here on the site to check yourself.
Your response is only 1/3 correct. ONLY the rear axle HOUSING on his '83 is the same width as the Fox Mustang stuff.
Sorry, but patience is thin these days.
I apologize chuck. I was going to dig deeper into it and edit my post, but I forgot to come back to it.
I had forgotten this existed. What were your driving impressions once you got the carb sorted out?
From other threads, looks like you're also putting a T-5 in it?
He has already installed the T-5 lol read his sig
Ah, I removed sigs many moons ago because I got tired of looking at all the in 'em :)
Wowzers! Dead threads alive! I enjoyed the out of it when it was running right(Distributor issues). She pulls like crazy through most of the gears with 3.73's. She was a bit of a dog in 5th, but that was from the runners being so short, there was just a giant open plenum, so basically no torque. Ok, minimal torque.
That is one of the reasons I'm installing EFI back on the motor, is because I don't feel like building a real intake manifold for it to get some of that back. I'm using a truck manifold for this go-round, and it is a torque monster.(Should be, anyway)
P.S. here's the sig line... 1983 Tbird with '03 Split Port V6 motor swap done! Headers, dual exhaust, 500CFM Edelbrock, 3G upgrade, Electric fan. 3.73 Gears and an FRPP Limited Slip. Five lug complete! 5-Speed conversion complete! Standalone Fuel Injection in progress...
Your using the F-150 4.2 intake then?
Yup. :)
sweet. See normally that wouldn't fit, but you have alerady cut the big ass hole in your hood so your good to go!
...although, if I recall, I think you have to actually make the cut where the throttle body pokes out the top, which is further to the front but your scoop should still cover it... hopefully... and I'm pretty sure that the upper can actually be installed 180* reverse if neccesary, but I'm not sure if there will be enough room against the firewally to fit the TB on.. anyway it sounds like you've already got it on there so I guess you figured all that out? lol
The cowl hood has about 1/2" of clearance after the IAC was relocated. :) And it is on correctly facing the front.
whoo close one lol
...also, where the hell are the pics!?!?!?
I was a bit disapointed with the low end on my 5.0 slow in 5th(.68) its okay crusing at 45mph, but even up to 75mph any hill requires a down shift unless you want to go well over half throttle.
plus side, no 1-d-1 shuffle when driving fast ;)
that's probably cause of that truck gearing
And what truck gearing would that be, good sir?
2:73 Final drive and .68 od ratio.
1st goes to about 40 mph, 2nd goes to about 65, 3rd i got up to 112. No idea on 4th and 5th, but one day id like to go try out the salt flats as its only an hour drive. with a bit more power i might be able to get to the 150mph club.
I always thought trucks had lower gears...
meant to ask this back in 09'
you mentioend early on the carb wierd angle and aircleaner in post 1.
going from 3.8L with the trans / gas pedal linkages on the drivers side as opposed to the 5.0L pass side, it makes sense how you oriented the carb.
the carb is suppose to slightly tilt forward for a reason but typically because of the carb intended lower intake.
is that a 4barrel?
the carb tilted forward so that when step on the gas hard, the floats dont cut out the fuel to the bowl.
my first reaction to your pics was ... "why is the carb mounted backwards"...
Interesting thought about the floats. It is a 4bbl 500CFM Edelbrock with rear fuel entry, unchanged from how I pulled it from the box. I can't recall ever seeing a carb with the throttle lever on the passenger side.
I didn't want to machine the intake so heavily as to bring it back to level for the carb, so I just let it lean back towards the firewall.
were the two larger butterflies to the front or to the rear when you bolted it down?
i agree, but the angle of the intake is the difference.
normally a carb intake would be lower on the front than the rear.
it *greatly* matters when getting on the gas pedal. thats why the carb intakes are made like that.
im just thinking your upper needs rotated 180, the allen head pattern doesnt look like its fool proof.
this would orientate your carb prob about 2'' forward from where its at now.
what i do now is the lower is probably level enough with gaskets. the adaptor (upper) just seems to me to be backwards.
like i said,, i remember this thread, just forgot to post.
I'll take pictures of it later. The upper is actually completely symmetrical and squared off, so there is no slope to it nor is there any difference front and back. Just a logo on the front flat. The carb has the large secondaries towards the firewall and the choke plate/idle screws are towards the front.
The lean of the whole thing is due to where the motor and trans mounts locate it. I wanted to drop the motor, but couldn't afford the parts necessary to do so. As it is, the oil pan has VERY little clearance to the steering rack.
understood, then the carb installed correctly yet its an picture trick there i see that makes the upper appear as though its lower on the front vs the rear.
I'm just gonna bump this with a "Check FB for the first video of it running on MS!" Since I don't have a host site for the video here. :)