Brief history-
Bought 85 XR-7, sat for 3 years (due to being wrecked), 32k original miles (so it probably sat quite a bit before this too).
-Wouldn't start at all. No spark. Changed TFI, had spark.
-Still No start. If I sprayed carb cleaner in the intake I would run on that.
-No Fuel pressure. Dropped the tank and found the notorious cracked line on the pump. Replaced the line.
-Now, it will start and run for about a second. Vrroooommmmplaaahh.
If I hold the gas at about 2000-2500rpms it will stay running, but it is missfiring. I replaced the plugs and wires, no change.
That's where I am at. Any ideas? I am dying to get on the road in this thing :burnout:
CoogarXR
Check the timing? Use your timing light to check to see if all cyls are getting spark (cap+rotor problem?).
Fresh gas? Could be a stuck injector. With as long as it has been sitting I wouldn't be surprised if they were gunked up. Poor a can of techron in the tank and see if it gets any better. Or, swipe some from the pick-n-pull, clean, and install them.
I have heard good things about a product called Procleen. It threads onto the pressure test valve on the fuel rail. Then you pull the pump relay and let the can run through the engine. Some auto parts stores sell it. Its usually pretty expensive.
The first two things I always do when I buy a non-op car are replace the harmonic balancer and wire the plugs with the proper firing order.
You might want to clean the throttlebody because the butterfly usually gets all gummed up. Just take a rag soaked in gasoline, wrap it around a screwdriver and scrub away. Be careful not to scratch anything, though.
Here's a couple videos to help describe the situation:
If I hit the key only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Wz42e89-k
If I give it gas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAIpo1tLe3w
CoogarXR
Any ideas?
CoogarXR
what's the question here? Why it stalls out on startup? Dunno, my '04 Monte Carlo does that too sometimes.
did you pull any codes? if not do so itll make it easier for someone to help you out here.
i wasnt aware the you could clean the TB on the 2.3 because they were coated with something, or is that only the newer ones?
danzajax, ive been looking for that procleen stuff for over a year to give it a try bt none of the stores locally have it:shakes fist:
When I turn the key, I just get 11 (system pass). If I start it and rev it a little and let it die, it gives me the following (definitions from fordfuelinjection.com):
12 Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test high RPM check
21 ECT out of self test range 0.3 to 3.7 volts.
25 Knock not sensed during dynamic test
26 MAF sensor was not between 0.2 and 1.5 volts with engine running
26 TOT sensor out of self test range
34 PFE or EVP circuit above the closed limit of 0.67 volts
41 No HEGO switching detected always lean
77 System failed to recognize brief WOT during Dynamic Response Test (user error)
CoogarXR
check for vac leaks. I would think your boost gauge would at least twitch a little bit. Dismantle/clean the IAC.
Do you have a vac gauge?
I don't have a vac gage.
I took the IAC off, but I don't really know what to clean in there. It looks pretty clean (the inside is about the same grey color as the outside).
I would have thought the turbo needle would move too. It actually moves a little to the left (wrong way) you can see it slightly in the second video. Where does it connect to the vac system?
I might go try to clean the MAF...
(Edit: Cleaning the maf (though it didn't need it) made no difference)
CoogarXR
If the engine was warmed up, replace the ECT and test again... If it was cold, warm it up and test again... It'll never run right if the EEC doesn't have a proper temp reference...
Here we go.
12 It is telling you that during throttle related test you have to work the throttle.
21 The ECT is toast. .3-3.7 volts cold or hot should be in this range not greater or less.
25 Did you knock on the intake or some thing to make it sense knock?
26 Its is a VAM not a MAF close but different. Sounds like you need a new one or someone messed with it and it is toast.
26 TOT have no idea on TOT but with the code 26 almost bet air temp sensor inside VAM
34 PFE/ EVP sensor not at proper voltage. could be holey vac line, bad EGR valve or position sensor.
41 HEGO that is telling you that your O2 sensor is not switching like it should at normal operation temps. If you are in the right ball park of air/fuel mixture. If I remember right the 85's have a 1 wire sensor so that take longer to get to reading temp due to lack of heater to help warm it up.
77 Once again you didn't floor the throttle when it wanted you to during the test.
None of this except for maybe the ECT would cause your condition. I tell you it is the TFI or maybe even the Pick up that is not working. OF those 2 I think TFI because it has to segments Low Rpm and High rpm. If the low rpm is out it doesn't like to run at low rpm but would run at high RPM. Also check to make sure the Ignition switch to make sure it doesn't have a bad connection or bad connection inside the switch. Very common problem in these.
Just tryin to help
Stuckman
Don't think much of this is valid, given the way you had to run the test.
12 probably because you had your foot on the gas.
21 not warmed up.
25 you didn't do the goose test.
26 in your case it is a VAF or is it VAM(vane air flow meter)
26 TOT transmission oil temp. Not sure if you have this. Even if you do, it's a memory code and not an engine running code.
34 not sure about this one on a Turbo. I don't think you have a PFE or an EVP. I think it means EGR flow is too low but I don't know how it senses that.
41 HEGO lean may be valid
77 you didn't do the goose test.
I bought an 86 XR7 with 50k on it that was wrecked and sat for at least 10 years. After swapping drivetrain into another 86 Cougar and putting in fresh gas, oil, coolant, plugs and wires, it started up and ran ok. Shortly after the fuel pump died from all the new excitement, so you might verify your fuel pressure. After I put a new one in it ran great.
your kidding,, right?
just where can i randomly find a harmonic new? That would be the last thing i do,, i dont get it.
Did you ever verify fuel pressure? Esp while running?
The boost gauge connects at the vac T on the firewall. You won't see the car build any boost when you rev it w/o load. If you do, something is wrong.
Your codes don't tell you much as the car needs to be @ operating temp for them to be valid. The ECT "may" be an issue and is easy to swap out. Unplug the VAM and see if that changes anything when you try and start it.
I'm betting it's more of a fuel issue than anything.
I'm going nuts...
I pulled the fuel rail, cleaned the injectors (they were quite dirty), replaced the o-rings, reasembled the rail outside on top of the intake and hit the key (to build pressure). I cycled each injector with a battery and all 4 shot fine. Put the rail back into place, hit the key... SAME . Won't stay running. AAARRG!
It's gotta be something stupid.
Oh and did I mention that all of the fuel lines had the usual clips, except one, I had to buy a special tool. PSH!
CoogarXR
Alright. I pulled the EGR and cleaned it. No change.
I was showing the car to my brother in law and explaining what it was doing (he's not a car guy, but it was helping me to assemble my thoughts out loud).
I had him hit the key and I was testing for spark on all 4 cyls. All were good. I put a gage on the fuel line, perfect pressure.
We were just bantering back and fourth about the problem. Good spark, good fuel, good air? I tore the air box off again, but this time I jammed the baffle door on the VAM open with a socket extension. I hit the key and the dang thing idled! It friggin' ran!
When I pull my extension out of the baffle, it dies. Knowing nothing about VAMs (or MAFs, I still don't know which it is...), I ask you gurus, what the heck is wrong?
CoogarXR
You mean the VAM door is now partially opened by the extension??? If so you likely have a defective VAM... Does it's door move freely???
The door seems to move freely...
I guess it's off to the "wanted" board to post an ad...
CoogarXR
or the hose to the vam has a hole or isnt connected properly
BINGO!
I took the VAM off with the intent to disect it, and I lifted up the hose and looked down it. I saw daylight! It looks like somebody took the hose off of the turbo and when they put it back on it curled up around the whole bottom. It looked totally fine from the top, I never would have seen it had I not looked inside the hose.
Anyhow, I put it back on correctly and cranked it up, and it runs! (Still sputtery, but that's another chapter, at least it'll idle now).
I learned a lot about this VAM system by this experience. Had I known how important the VAM is, I would have investigated this much sooner. But coming from the 80's 5.0 world (carb, speed density, cfi, etc) air hoses are "decorations".
Thanks for everybody's continuing help on this thread.
CoogarXR
I think I am actually done with the engine work!
I replaced all of the vaccum lines, reset the timing, and now she purrs silky smooth.
I took it out and got on it a little, nice smooth accelleration, no pings. I can only get to about 30mph between speedbumps in my neighborhood though (can't take it on public streets yet, no plates!).
Thanks again for your help and letting me brainstorm on here.
Now on to steering and body work!
CoogarXR