Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Bill E. Bob on April 29, 2009, 12:41:47 PM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on April 29, 2009, 12:41:47 PM
spent a few weeks searching the internet on this.
Ended up with a 1984 Tbird that has a "rebuilt C5" installed but not finished because "the driveshaft wont fit".
Apparently it originally had a C5, so I was thinking maybe they put in a C4 or ??? It looks just like a C5 though. Can't find many differences to identify.
The problem is that while the driveshaft slip yoke slides onto the output shaft of the transmission all the way down to its original position, it won't fit back on to the differential yoke by about an inch too long. Cant get the drive shaft onto the transmission any further, and the shiny part lines up with the seal, so I know its going in as far as it used to.
The only non-original part is the "rebuilt transmission" so I'm wondering if anyone knows how to identify whether or not its actually a C5 and/ or there were changes made to the length of a C5 etc.
Will probably have to try to shorten the driveshaft unless someone has a better suggestion.
Any ideas?
Ended up with a 1984 Tbird that has a "rebuilt C5" installed but not finished because "the driveshaft wont fit".
Apparently it originally had a C5, so I was thinking maybe they put in a C4 or ??? It looks just like a C5 though. Can't find many differences to identify.
The problem is that while the driveshaft slip yoke slides onto the output shaft of the transmission all the way down to its original position, it won't fit back on to the differential yoke by about an inch too long. Cant get the drive shaft onto the transmission any further, and the shiny part lines up with the seal, so I know its going in as far as it used to.
The only non-original part is the "rebuilt transmission" so I'm wondering if anyone knows how to identify whether or not its actually a C5 and/ or there were changes made to the length of a C5 etc.
Will probably have to try to shorten the driveshaft unless someone has a better suggestion.
Any ideas?
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: massCougarxr7 on April 29, 2009, 01:06:26 PM
Post by: massCougarxr7 on April 29, 2009, 01:06:26 PM
Maybe its a t5, i know alot of guys on here have done those, but idk,..... good luck, youll get youre answer soon!!!!
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: softtouch on April 29, 2009, 01:12:04 PM
Post by: softtouch on April 29, 2009, 01:12:04 PM
The code for the original transmission is on the vehicle certification label. This is on the driver's door jamb.
Under TR it's the first character of the 5 character code.
V= C3
C= C5
T= AOD
2= Manual 5-speed
7= Manual 4-speed
Under TR it's the first character of the 5 character code.
V= C3
C= C5
T= AOD
2= Manual 5-speed
7= Manual 4-speed
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 29, 2009, 02:44:55 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 29, 2009, 02:44:55 PM
Seems a bit strange you can't get it past the wear mark. You could cut the yoke down some since your talking an inch. but I would ?? whats different.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: mjbtbrd on April 29, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
Post by: mjbtbrd on April 29, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
A stang driveshaft is shorter but I do not know by how much. Maybe one of those would work. Someone here should know how much shorter they are.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Haystack on April 29, 2009, 03:36:17 PM
Post by: Haystack on April 29, 2009, 03:36:17 PM
or a custom driveshaft made from an alluminum areostar driveshaft.
We need to know for sure what the old motor was and how close the new one is the the origonal. If you still have the old one, measure them both side by side and post pictures.
We need to know for sure what the old motor was and how close the new one is the the origonal. If you still have the old one, measure them both side by side and post pictures.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 29, 2009, 03:38:33 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 29, 2009, 03:38:33 PM
Are you sure the D/S is for the car?
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: softtouch on April 29, 2009, 05:06:37 PM
Post by: softtouch on April 29, 2009, 05:06:37 PM
The original engine code is the 8th character of the VIN.
W=2.3 Turbo
3=3.8
F=5.0
W=2.3 Turbo
3=3.8
F=5.0
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: the_intimidator03 on April 29, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
Post by: the_intimidator03 on April 29, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
the differences between c4 and c5.. one moment and ill come up with some information.
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/AutoTrans.html
appears the pan on a c5 has a hump and the c4 does not...
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/AutoTrans.html
appears the pan on a c5 has a hump and the c4 does not...
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Ductape91 on April 29, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Post by: Ductape91 on April 29, 2009, 08:08:17 PM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;269700
Are you sure the D/S is for the car?
x2
you got a pic of what your dealing with there?
what length is the driveshaft for a c3 trans?
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on April 29, 2009, 10:20:33 PM
Post by: Chooglin on April 29, 2009, 10:20:33 PM
Quote from: the_intimidator03;269721
appears the pan on a c5 has a hump and the c4 does not...
Not all c5's have the hump,mine has a flat pan,just like a c4.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on April 30, 2009, 02:19:36 PM
Post by: CatCarMan2012 on April 30, 2009, 02:19:36 PM
Did they manage to swap in an AOD? Is the bell housing removable?
C5 same length as C4
C5 same length as C4
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Bill E. Bob on April 30, 2009, 07:52:07 PM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on April 30, 2009, 07:52:07 PM
It has the original 3.8L engine and original driveshaft. The Cert. Label says it had a C5.
I checked the photos on the rangerstation site.
My trans. does not have the big hump in the pan like a C5 and it looks exactly like the C4 in those photos. It has the slight hump on the driver's side of the pan just like in the in the C4 photo.
It looks like the previous owner was sold a C4. Got as far as the driveshaft issue then gave up.
I checked the photos on the rangerstation site.
My trans. does not have the big hump in the pan like a C5 and it looks exactly like the C4 in those photos. It has the slight hump on the driver's side of the pan just like in the in the C4 photo.
It looks like the previous owner was sold a C4. Got as far as the driveshaft issue then gave up.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 30, 2009, 08:31:45 PM
Post by: Thunder Chicken on April 30, 2009, 08:31:45 PM
Did C5's come in different lengths, like the AOD did? Maybe you got a truck C5 or something. That's about all I can think of...
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on April 30, 2009, 09:20:26 PM
Post by: Chooglin on April 30, 2009, 09:20:26 PM
I would think the bellhousing could be your problem.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Ductape91 on April 30, 2009, 11:07:24 PM
Post by: Ductape91 on April 30, 2009, 11:07:24 PM
did you look at the tag on the trans itself?
both of my fords had that little hump on the drivers side. they were definately c5 transmissions. ive seen some in the junkyard with the flat(squared) looking pan. i never saw one as rusty as the one in the pic though.
i cant find a difference worth mentioning here in my books reguarding the different c5 trannys.
i still think your driveshaft is wrong.
both of my fords had that little hump on the drivers side. they were definately c5 transmissions. ive seen some in the junkyard with the flat(squared) looking pan. i never saw one as rusty as the one in the pic though.
i cant find a difference worth mentioning here in my books reguarding the different c5 trannys.
i still think your driveshaft is wrong.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 01, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 01, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;269939
Did C5's come in different lengths, like the AOD did? Maybe you got a truck C5 or something. .
That's what I was thinking...
I know the C3 & C4 have different lengths, couldn't use a DS for a C4 Stang in the one I had with C3... BUT I don't think anything other than the NA 4cyl used the C3...
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 01, 2009, 02:39:10 PM
Post by: Kitz Kat on May 01, 2009, 02:39:10 PM
I have another thought to. how long has it sat with the ds out? maybe the output shaft rusted, grabbing straws.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 01, 2009, 11:23:04 PM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 01, 2009, 11:23:04 PM
everything is original except the transmission(and bell housing) The driveshaft slides easily on the output shaft until the shiny part matches up with the seal so I know its going as far onto the shaft as it did with the original trans.
Its definitely an issue with the transmission. There is no tag on the transmission.
If a C5 doesn't have the hump on the bottom of the pan does that mean the entire pan depth is greater than that of a C4?
If it is a C4, and I just cut the driveshaft down, what would be the potential problems with running a C4 in it? Any ideas?
Thinking about trying to find a junkyard C5 from a 1984 Tbird etc. That way I wouldn't have any compatibility issues. I guess
Its definitely an issue with the transmission. There is no tag on the transmission.
If a C5 doesn't have the hump on the bottom of the pan does that mean the entire pan depth is greater than that of a C4?
If it is a C4, and I just cut the driveshaft down, what would be the potential problems with running a C4 in it? Any ideas?
Thinking about trying to find a junkyard C5 from a 1984 Tbird etc. That way I wouldn't have any compatibility issues. I guess
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 02, 2009, 02:52:07 AM
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on May 02, 2009, 02:52:07 AM
Cut the shaft and forget about swapping the transmission...
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 02, 2009, 09:00:25 AM
Post by: Chooglin on May 02, 2009, 09:00:25 AM
I am pulling my C5 this weekend,so if I can help you in anyway (photos,measurement.......etc.) let me know and I will do what I can ,to help you identify yours.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 02, 2009, 06:13:35 PM
Post by: Chooglin on May 02, 2009, 06:13:35 PM
this is how you can POSITIVELY identify a C5 trans.If you are willing to pull your pan,look at the valve body,if there is a TIMING BODY bolted on top of it,you have a c5.(the timing body will be underneath the filter).
A c4 will not have a TIMING BODY,the filter will be bolted to the valve body.
A c4 will not have a TIMING BODY,the filter will be bolted to the valve body.
Title: C5
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 02, 2009, 10:48:37 PM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 02, 2009, 10:48:37 PM
So if I have the C5, with a 7 inch bell housing, and the trans. mount lines up with the crossmember, I wonder how I end up with extra length.
The original driveshaft slides easily up the output shaft until it hits something. At that point the rear seal (outer seal) matches up with the shiny/rusty demarcation so I know the driveshaft is going as far as it is supposed to.
If I had a too big bellhousing, wouldn't that put the trans mount too far back beyond the crossmember?
The original driveshaft slides easily up the output shaft until it hits something. At that point the rear seal (outer seal) matches up with the shiny/rusty demarcation so I know the driveshaft is going as far as it is supposed to.
If I had a too big bellhousing, wouldn't that put the trans mount too far back beyond the crossmember?
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Ductape91 on May 03, 2009, 12:03:49 AM
Post by: Ductape91 on May 03, 2009, 12:03:49 AM
i wish i could get into my computer and get decent ones but here are some pics i could scramble of my driveshaft matched up to the trans and rear. these were taken while the car was on level ground(not jacked up)
compare them with yours and see if there are any differences between them.
all i can think of...
compare them with yours and see if there are any differences between them.
all i can think of...
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
this is my overall drivshaft length
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 09:32:16 AM
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 09:32:16 AM
and this is my bellhousing length and overall trans length.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 10:43:35 AM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 10:43:35 AM
My overall length from front of bell housing to tip of outer rear seal is 33" not 31"
Somehow my C5 is 2" longer.
Also my 58" original driveshaft only has 2" of the shiny part, not 4".
When I slide on the output shaft that shiny part matches up with the rear seal. I wonder if there is something in the transmission that the yoke hits up against that is some kind of adapter that can be removed to accomodate
I think there is a difference in the rust on the yoke seen at the 4" mark. Maybe the shiny part at 2" was preserved by the plastic wrap in storage, and it is just coincindence that it lines up with the trans. seal. Still doesnt change that it wont go in another 2" though.
Somehow my C5 is 2" longer.
Also my 58" original driveshaft only has 2" of the shiny part, not 4".
When I slide on the output shaft that shiny part matches up with the rear seal. I wonder if there is something in the transmission that the yoke hits up against that is some kind of adapter that can be removed to accomodate
I think there is a difference in the rust on the yoke seen at the 4" mark. Maybe the shiny part at 2" was preserved by the plastic wrap in storage, and it is just coincindence that it lines up with the trans. seal. Still doesnt change that it wont go in another 2" though.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 11:09:24 AM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 11:09:24 AM
wondering what part # 48 might be and if it is some kind of spacer that can be removed.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 11:28:36 AM
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 11:28:36 AM
It does look like that driveshaft did go into the tailshaft 4" at one time or another.can you look inside the tailshaft with a light and see if there is a spacer in there.(that just seems odd to me though).
if there is a spacer in there,I would think that that would restrict the DS from moving on the spline and it has to move or somthing is going to break.
if there is a spacer in there,I would think that that would restrict the DS from moving on the spline and it has to move or somthing is going to break.
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 11:50:08 AM
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 11:50:08 AM
ok I went out and measured my exstension housing.I measured from where it bolts to the trans,down to the end of the rubber driveshaft boot/seal and it measures 14".
is there a 3.8 or a 302/5.0 in the car now?
is there a 3.8 or a 302/5.0 in the car now?
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Thunder Chicken on May 03, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
Post by: Thunder Chicken on May 03, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
Bill E. Bob:
Is there a tag on the tranny? According to Mitchell OnDemand the C5 came in two flavours. Code W for F-150, and code C for all other applications. I'm guessing the F-150 is longer, and you've got an F-150 tranny.
I dunno what that part is you show in the pic. I've got a cutaway diagram of the tranny (shown below) and the only thing it shows is the speedo drive gear, which is part of the output shaft
*EDIT* I've just found out what that part is. It's a bushing, the driveshaft slides through it into the tranny. I should've known that, a friend had one go bad on him and wear into the driveshaft...
Is there a tag on the tranny? According to Mitchell OnDemand the C5 came in two flavours. Code W for F-150, and code C for all other applications. I'm guessing the F-150 is longer, and you've got an F-150 tranny.
I dunno what that part is you show in the pic. I've got a cutaway diagram of the tranny (shown below) and the only thing it shows is the speedo drive gear, which is part of the output shaft
*EDIT* I've just found out what that part is. It's a bushing, the driveshaft slides through it into the tranny. I should've known that, a friend had one go bad on him and wear into the driveshaft...
Title: Here is the problem
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 06:22:37 PM
Post by: Bill E. Bob on May 03, 2009, 06:22:37 PM
No tag on the transmission. Previous owner bought a "rebuilt" trans
Narrowed it down to the slip yoke not going all the way in. Apparently it was left stuck in the 2 inches and the rest of the 4inch insertion depth rusted - which is why it made me think it was going all the way in like it used to. (only 2 inches of shiny)
Anyway, tried to find some foriegn object laying in the seal area that was blocking the yoke, but found out the yoke hits up against the bushing and/or the housing because the output shaft does is not aligned with the housing.
I guess a py "rebuild" job.
Tried to shove it around to force it, but can't budge the output shaft.
Now have to figure the cost of another transmission over what I could get for a 84 Tbird 35k miles- It has the 3.8L
Narrowed it down to the slip yoke not going all the way in. Apparently it was left stuck in the 2 inches and the rest of the 4inch insertion depth rusted - which is why it made me think it was going all the way in like it used to. (only 2 inches of shiny)
Anyway, tried to find some foriegn object laying in the seal area that was blocking the yoke, but found out the yoke hits up against the bushing and/or the housing because the output shaft does is not aligned with the housing.
I guess a py "rebuild" job.
Tried to shove it around to force it, but can't budge the output shaft.
Now have to figure the cost of another transmission over what I could get for a 84 Tbird 35k miles- It has the 3.8L
Title: T Bird C5 swap but driveshaft wont fit
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 08:07:11 PM
Post by: Chooglin on May 03, 2009, 08:07:11 PM
glad to see you figured it out.good luck getting it all worked out.