My shortblock is almost finished. I am considering swapping to a carb.
Can someone explain what is involved in swapping an efi pump to a low pressure carb pump?
Is there an in tank unit I can swap in?
If not, can I swap in a piece of fuel line instead of the in tank unit? I could then splice an in-line unit on the frame.
Thanks,
-Dan
You can stay with the pump thats in it if you use a 6-9Psi fuel pressure regulator to meter the fuel correctly. This is what I was going to do on my car as well. Maybe someone can back me up on this as I am not 100% sure and don't want to give incorrect advice.
If the thing is gonna be a driver....what is making you want to swap on a carb? Is it parts availability? Is it cash??? Is it info??
I knew this question would come up. Yes I know about efi low end torque. Yes I know about long runners, idle, streetabiliy, etc.
Its not a driver. Its a weekender. I wanted to go carbed because of the following:
1. Look. I want to have a big chrome air cleaner on top of a quad with tall shiny valve covers.
2. Simplicity. I want to clean up the engine bay.
3. Cam+Heads. If I go cam+heads I would need to convert to Mass-air. I would be more likely to get a mega-squirt. Top it off with a GT40 intake.
Yes my current EFI runs fine but the engine in the car has a miss (due to real low compression on #4).
I am not even 100% sure that its the way I want to go. I am really interested in running a MS setup. Just wondering what it would take to convert.
Using a low pressure adjustable fuel pressure regulator works. I've run an F/I pump and lines with an adjustable regulator on two vehicles. No issues. If you are interested in one which will snap lock into your existing F/I lines, I have one. PM me for more info.
I vote "Not"
Stay EFI.
Your car is an 88. You can swap the in-tank pump out for a higher flow unit. It's been done buy several people on this board.
Going carb is a big step backwards IMO...especially for a "driver".
Its not a driver. And how would swapping out my pump for a higher flow fix lumpy cam + Speed density pyness?
you cant do a lumpy cam and sd thats where the pyness lies, just find a pigtail off a mass air mustang and wire it in to the sd harness, grab a a9l/a9p ecm and be done with it.
but I cant talk, I just finished up doing a carbed 302 myself lol. Fuel system I would just get a external pump like a holley blue, and a regulator. Sump the tank or make a pickup out of -8 an line and run that all the way up with -6 an line.
heres the kit I will be going with: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DPUMPKIT7A&FROM=MG
and I will be sumping my tank for more an fittings and an hose. with this kit http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DTANKKIT3&FROM=MG
by using a speed density cam. There are a few available. You could also have a custom one made that would give you more power, better drivability, and gas mileage then an after market one. Get a carb look with efi.
Use a carbed lower with either a efi carb style throttle body or stick with efi. Every reason to go carbed dosen't hold alot of anything agaisnt efi. The wires are already there. You can hide them easily. I guess there's too many wires in this picture.
http://www.coolcats.net/eric/86convertible/images/conv18.jpg
So many carb-haters on this board. Still, only two people actually answered my original question. Seriously, no one wants to run a carb just for the hell of it? At least Bane isn't bustin' my balls.
Most of us need to pass emissions. There are many walk through for what you need to do to switch to a carb. I actually googled a site I used to frequent with a complete walkthrough and a list of what is needed. Its currently under construction and has been for a while, otherwise I would have linked you to it.
Every carb'd vehicle I have ever driven has been a blast. But EFI is the best of all worlds. Unless you already have a carb'd motor, I really don't see any point in swapping it out.
Are you going to weld on your gas tank to install that sump? :flame:
yea cut out the farthest bottom/lowest part of the fuel tank and weld that in. of course the tank has to be completely empty unless you want to have some fun lol
Dude..I'm not bustin' your balls, just wanted to determine why someone would want to take FI off and replace it with s carby when there are so many cheap FI parts and it's already on there. I was attempting to gauge what you were going to be doing with the car....that is what I would look at for a pending swap. If you had said that you were going to be driving it every day...I would say, well better think that through. If you said weekend...like you did. Why not a carb? if you do not have to invest $600 in a good carb and buy all the stuff to make it work then why not. If you do, leave the EFI on it and get some used hot rod stuff. Put some 19's in it , a stock MAF and re pin the computer. If you want, You can pull the harness out, box it up buy the pig tail and mail it to me. I will repin it for you. It will idle better, start better, run better, be more fuel efficient, be more tree friendly......you see where I am going.
Not to stick my finger in the open sore but, it sounds like you already had your mind made up before you asked the question.
I stayed FI even after building my T-Bird into a Drag Car...but there have been times that I got fed up with the FI and wanted to go carbed. Aeromotive makes a fuel pressure regulator that will use the stock EFI pump and regulate to a carb pressure. The throttle cable can be had at Late Model restoration. Your AOD will need the detent from a carbed 85 car...hit the JY. There is no need to sump a tank unless you are ripping some serious short times and that can be overcome by filling the tank. Trust me I have a sumped tank and I will be taking it out in June and throwing it away....a fuel cell is the way I should have went from the beginning.
No, my mind is still not made up. I am enticed by the carb and I am a person who typically goes against the grain. The more people yelled "your a fool!" the more I wanted to do it.
I have a set of 19# from the JY I just rebuilt and a HO SD computer. Also, I already swapped a T5 into the car.
In reality, I will probably end up going EFI. I love the idea of a MegaSquirt setup and I might still try that. But with my short block sitting on the stand, I picture it being topped off with a big 4bbl, finned valve covers, and chromed pancake. I get nostalgic for my old 84 Camaro (beater rust-bucket that it was). A Holly carb would really give it that nostalgic "Ocho Cilindros" feel.
Also, what cars can I swipe a MAF from?
So where can I get a cheap GT40 intake?
I could care less about whether you're running SD or not.
If you're upgrading the power output of the engine, you will need more fuel pump. You mentioned deleting the in-tank and splicing in some in-line pump, and that's just not needed. That is what I was refering to, not your choice of metering/injection.
And yes, I'm busting your balls about converting to carb.
The discussed MS conversion is a good one. Granted there is a learning curve when it comes to tuning, but in the end you get a better idea about how it all works in the end.
If you want a nostalgia "look", get a 4bbl TBI unit (I've seen them) and use that instead of a "std" port injected set-up.
That was if I installed a low pressure inline pump. I would need something to suck gas from the bottom of the tank because the in-tank unit would be gone.
Tell me about it. I get more love from the 16 year olds over at VWVortex when I work on my 84 rabbit. (Which is mechanical fuel injection I might add) Where's all the brotherly Coug-love?
Agreed. But, I still don't buy the argument that the system is "already there". So far, I identified that I would have to switch out the Upper/lower intake, add a MAF, Swap the computer, fuel pump, injectors, splice/repin the computer. Sounds to me like the only thing left over from the "already there" system is the fuel lines/rails.
That would incur the cost of both systems. I would need a MS, new harness, lower intake, fuel reg (b/c TBI uses a lower fuel press if I recall), pump and filter.
Your 80' is carbed isn't it?
Yes, and?
The car was sold. It was still carbed, but it sure as hell wouldn't of stayed that way. It was running carbed because it was, well...running. I wanted to drive it after finaly getting all the susp , brakes and interior done. Hated the carb though. The car was going to get an SHO engine swap if it was still in my hands. Even if I chose a different engine, it was certainly not going to be a 5.0 and definitely not carbed.
The guy who has it now is going to be converting it to EFI.
Well I like the carb and say just do it! I had a carb on my 79 Stang and it was perfectly streetable and was plenty fast.
79...79...79:nono:
The car came with FI...and if you are not buying it's already there then hell with it....buy all the carb stuff and go carbed. It just sounds like a fools errand and you just wanted an opinion. If you don't like it sorry, you asked.
I could care less if you swap in a SBC and put turbo's on it. It's not my car and I will never see you but, you asked what I thought and I let you know.
I bet none of the 16YO pimple faced EMO's over on your VDUB board ever offered to pin your computer for free. If that does not sound brotherly...then hell the world has gone to $hit!!
Thanks have a nice day. Carbed it is!!
So you can't put EFI in a 79 now?
If you want to go carbed, do it. Mine was TBI when I got it. Under the hood was a horrible mess. Wires cut and hacked, ran somtimes, sometimes it didn't. So I went carbed. It was a little easier on my '83, as the fuel pump was inline under the car. I changed out the intake, used a 2 barrel, and changed the timing chain cover to accept a mechanical fuel pump. Removed the inline fuel pump, and was able to use the existing fuel lines. Later, when money was a little better, (I was 17 when I bought the car) I then upgraded to a 4 barrel, bigger cam, intake and heads.
Chill, I still own the coug and my SC. The world hasn't gone to hell. I guess I should have used the SCCOA as a reference instead.
Actually the question was how to convert the fuel system. Apparently I struck a nerve. I appreciate the offer to re-pin the connector. I am just surprised that people seem to get so worked up over the conversion. I was just trying to support my argument that maybe converting isin't so crazy.
I appreciate your opinion, and if ya ever break down in SA drop me a line and I would be more than willing to help.
Everyone has EFI, I just want something kinda different. This car is an experiment. A twin turbo LS1 would make a pretty rude cougar.
Sounds like you got beef with my Rabbit too (actually its my girlfriend, i just resurected it).
Just so you know, my dog loves it. (He digs the cougar too until I start it)
(http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19241&stc=1&d=1239941938)
Off topic (my apologies) but that is an excellent photo....
Didn't they call those Cabriolets? I always liked the older rabbits. I'd want one dropped down in the weeds :D.
It's your car, I wouldn't worry about the rabid EFInatics think... I look at it like this, ain't no law that says you can't convert back it FI...
When(if) I decide to go back to weekend racing and if I can't get some constancy in the ETs, I'm actually considering going to a carb...
Thanks V8. Its actually taken by My girlfriends sister. I will tell her so.
They made Rabbit Convertibles for about 3 years I think (identified by their chrome bumpers). Then in 85 they re-named the rabbit to the golf (and gave them plastic bumpers) and the rabbit vert to the Cabriolet. VW thought the name was driving away customers. Interesting note, VW just announced the new model rabbits 07-09 will be renamed the 2010 Golf. I guess things don't change.
When she bought it (for next to nothing) . The previous owner had tried to replace the head and botched the job. After some extensive re-timing and fixing vac leaks, it runs pretty well. I recently replaced most of the front suspension. It drives pretty well for 90 hp and 25 year old.
-DZ
I'm actually going carbed in my '83 bird, but it's a long, long way away from running. I'll let you know :P
I swapped from EFI to carb when I first put my car together (I was careful not to cut anything up to give me the option of a future re-conversion).
With the upgrades to the motor it made no sense to put stock stuff on it. Money was tight so I put on an RPM intake and a Carb Shop Stage II 600 Holley. I ran it for a couple years that way. It always ran well with only two complaints: It needed an idle up selenoid when the A/C kicked on (the slowed idle set up a resonance) and gas mileage around town sucked.
I did swap back to EFI. The goal was to pick up the milage around town. Saved up the cash and strarted picking up parts. It was considerably more expensive than I expected. I spent $1,000 collecting all the associated parts (including mass air). It ran like ! Idle surge, stalling. Tried all the tricks out there to try to tame it, no luck. Bought a mail oder chip ($250) no luck. Bought another MAF meter ($150), that helped a lot. Ended up getting a custom tune (add another $600). Ran great! Around town mileage didn't improve much though.
For the price of stroking the motor, I got EFI.
In the years since the EFI swap it has run fine.
A custom cam greatly improved drivability. Around town milage finally improved.
IMO either option works. My experience: Both can run great. EFI can be much more expensive if all the stock stuff needs to be upgraded.
Camshaft selection can give EFI fits which may require custom tuning.
I'm going carb myself. But I'm an old school kinda guy. Besides, my car didn't come with a gas tank.
The engine I have is a honed stockish bottom end. I have a set of WP Windsor Jr with roller rockers. I haven't picked out a cam yet. I am leaning towards an E303.