Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: wnt2gofst on February 13, 2009, 08:56:52 PM

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Post by: wnt2gofst on February 13, 2009, 08:56:52 PM
351 cleveland or winsor that is the question
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Post by: shame302 on February 13, 2009, 08:58:09 PM
windsor...that is the answer
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Post by: Rcarder407 on February 13, 2009, 08:59:42 PM
+1 cleveland

just because im rebuilding one right now.
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Post by: V8Demon on February 13, 2009, 09:04:35 PM
408.....
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 13, 2009, 09:17:03 PM
999...
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Post by: wnt2gofst on February 13, 2009, 09:43:00 PM
im just trying to find out if it would be worth building a cleveland, im can get one off a guy i work with for free the block, heads, oilpan, carb, cam etc.....it just needs the little stuff, intake mech fuel pump plugs, wires, gaskets and a little machine work
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Post by: Rcarder407 on February 13, 2009, 09:47:19 PM
winsor is much cheaper to build and find parts for. Believe me the clevelands are not cheap to build or find parts for.
Is it a 2v or 4v engine?
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Post by: 85bird on February 13, 2009, 09:53:02 PM
Windsor . . . pen 15e.
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Post by: V8Demon on February 13, 2009, 10:00:41 PM
Pepsi.
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 13, 2009, 10:22:26 PM
No fries, chips.
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Post by: V8Demon on February 13, 2009, 10:45:25 PM
Guacamole, not salsa.
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Post by: shame302 on February 13, 2009, 11:43:45 PM
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408.....
it...yes 408!
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 13, 2009, 11:43:56 PM
Just for kicks, Let me say that I loved that ol' 351C 2V in my '71 Mustang.
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Post by: vinnietbird on February 13, 2009, 11:50:06 PM
If the Cleveland is free,take it.But use a Windsor in the car.Parts are abundant and a lot easier to find,it's cheaper to build,and you can get a lot of power out of it as well.
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Post by: 32VFoxBird on February 13, 2009, 11:58:26 PM
Clevor! :D
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Post by: Innes on February 14, 2009, 01:35:19 AM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;256706
Just for kicks, Let me say that I loved that ol' 351C 2V in my '71 Mustang.

The 351c are rare leave them for the old cars. Besides technology has come a long way for the Winsor motors. I use to listen to old-timers say the Cleveland was a better motor but that was then there’s too much aftermarket help for the Winsor now I feel.
Your question is very broad what are you looking to accomplish and what car is it going in.
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 14, 2009, 08:45:06 AM
Yep, my feelings for the Cleveland are sentimental - ahhh, cruising around in my late teens was so much fun. The 351C was fun to talk about as even then it was somewhat rare.

If I was to build another engine now, it'd be a Windsor of one sort or another. The 5L/5.8L family have so many aftermarket parts available including stroker kits, blowers etc. Clevelands are cool but probably not worth the extra money & effort.
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Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 14, 2009, 09:28:56 AM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;256756
Yep, my feelings for the Cleveland are sentimental - ahhh, cruising around in my late teens was so much fun. The 351C was fun to talk about as even then it was somewhat rare.

Not really, the 2V Clevelands were in probably 50% of the '70-'71 Torinos, I had a '71 Ranchero with one... 4V could be a bit hard to find but I wouldn't call it rare(at least around here)...One of my buddies had  a 4V in a '70 Stang, with the FMX(cast iron) automatic... From a 30mph roll, it'd stay close to my 428CJ Fairlane... From a standing start I could eat him up, the Clevelands were a bit weak on the bottom end...

The most unlikely 4V Cleveland I remember seeing, was in a plain Jane '70 Fairlane station wagon... Ran across it in a junk yard, verified the VIN and it was a real "M" code, had to say DAYUM...
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Post by: 86XR7project on February 14, 2009, 09:40:36 AM
build a Clevor.
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 14, 2009, 12:30:54 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;256757
Not really, the 2V Clevelands were in probably 50% of the '70-'71 Torinos, I had a '71 Ranchero with one...


Yeah, you're probably right. I never saw another Mustang with one at the time and until this day in fact, but they may have been popular elsewhere. Also, those year Mustangs are less popular at the shows I go to.

Since it was only produced from '70 - '74 as the era of smog engines was in full gear, it didn't have a long production run to exploit it's strengths (with the exception of some smart drag-racers.)
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Post by: 86XR7project on February 14, 2009, 12:42:11 PM
Get some Aussie Cleavland heads I hear they are the best for the 351C.
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 14, 2009, 01:27:50 PM
Funny, my '71 Mustang was actually somewhat unusual in that they made less than 5000 351C 2V's with a C6 tranny:

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1971
2V Mustangs with FMX 24,916 with [COLOR="Red"]C6 4,978[/COLOR]


It looked exactly like this one:

(http://mustangattitude.com/mustang/1971/1971_00023_01.jpg)

Since the Grande was 12% of production in 1971, it's likely less than 1000 were made like mine.
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Post by: V8Demon on February 14, 2009, 02:13:09 PM
Quote from: Cougar5.0;256800
Funny, my '71 Mustang was actually somewhat unusual in that they made less than 5000 351C 2V's with a C6 tranny:



It looked exactly like this one:

(http://mustangattitude.com/mustang/1971/1971_00023_01.jpg)

Since the Grande was 12% of production in 1971, it's likely less than 1000 were made like mine.


Now figure out how many had the exact options yours did and then do this:  :punchballs:
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Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 14, 2009, 04:00:21 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;256812
Now figure out how many had the exact options yours did and then do this:  :punchballs:


Yeah, I was starting to think about that as I was researching the production numbers :punchballs: I'd like to have that and my '69 GTO back - ahh, well...
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Post by: Lightningbird on February 14, 2009, 05:16:00 PM
Talk about thread jacking....hope you guys were wearing ski masks.

Clevor. Edelbrock makes an intake to tie it all together. Use the best parts from both engines. Windsor bottom end, Cleveland top end (heads!!!) the heads were what made a cleveland nasty, otherwise they were an other ford "Modified" engine. A 302 with the Cleveland 2-v heads will hold it's own against the best 5.0 ford factory heads and you got them for free. The expensive parts are the headers and intake manifold.

I vote for the clevor cause it is different. If you got some cash build a 427 Clevor.
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Post by: HAVI on February 15, 2009, 01:01:50 PM
Again, street or strip?

351C stroker:  (notice the rpms)
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Post by: 86XR7project on February 15, 2009, 06:12:54 PM
A Clevor WOULD be a cool conversation piece tho. Haha.
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Post by: wnt2gofst on February 15, 2009, 10:14:28 PM
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Again, street or strip?


both, i live about 5 miles from our track and plan on going most weekends when it opens up again
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Post by: HAVI on February 15, 2009, 10:32:44 PM
AFAIK, Clevelands are better for the strip, whereas 351W's are decent for both.  (Or you could go with a stroked 400 like me. :) ) Clevors are cool, but parts are scarce, and 460's are torquey, but are heavy.  All in all, it's a trade off one way or another.  I'd still get the Cleveland just to have, and find a 5.8 EFI and talk to 5.8fastcat about a good setup.
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Post by: wnt2gofst on February 16, 2009, 10:00:14 AM
any v8 sounds good to me right now, i have a cfi v6 now and makes sh*t for power i can stomp on some wanna be fast civics but thats about it :mad: so i figured it be a fast easy swap and i could deal with it till i got out of college
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Post by: sarjxxx on February 16, 2009, 09:11:58 PM
Yeah I know that feeling I've got the 3.8 too and its weak. --0-60 in 9.? at best--  I just bought this car 3 months ago, and since it feels like I have less power than I did then. I definitely have plans to drop at least a 302 HO in it.
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Post by: wnt2gofst on February 17, 2009, 09:04:37 PM
the 3.8 just doesnt want to pull around 3800 lbs, it sucks i NEED power:evilgrin: :burnout:
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Post by: 88'birdlover on March 09, 2009, 12:44:38 AM
i know what you mean
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Post by: coug460 on March 09, 2009, 08:11:54 AM
Yeah, thats why you do like i did, rip it out and drop a big block in!!:)
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Post by: 1BDBIRD on March 09, 2009, 10:47:21 AM
A nicely built 302 would be the best bang for a beginners buck$$.
I had carbed 302 c-6 3.73 and could keep up with my bros 04 4.6 gt.
and used parts are very abundent. Compared to 3.8 it would feel like it hauls freakn ass.
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Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on March 10, 2009, 07:58:04 AM
408 Windsor all the way.
Stay away from the torque monster 460 ;)
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Post by: Cat Daddy on March 31, 2009, 06:05:44 AM
Build a solid lifter 4 barrel Cleveland and add some 5:14 gears.Tell us how she does.Better yet show us a video of your permagrin the first time you nail it from a roll after it is dialed in!:D