Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: fordguy545 on February 05, 2009, 09:42:20 PM

Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 05, 2009, 09:42:20 PM
well, its back on the ground, and does look sweet, except its just too low for my liking. 


Pass Front start - 27 1/16"
              after - 26 1/8"
              Diff  -  15/16"
Driv Front start - 26 9/16"
              after - 25 7/8
              diff  -  11/16
Pass Rear start - 27 1/2"
              after - 25 1/2"
              diff -  2"
Driv Rear start - 26 1/2"
            after - 24 15/16"
              diff  - 1 9/16"
All these measurements are to the highest point of the wheelwell.  The rear springs are in there out of the box without the needed spacers that I would need to make.  Spacers should be somewhere around 1 1/4".  The car always leaned to the drivers side, and it appears to have cut that difference in half, but I had really thought it would cure it.  I am also thinking maybe I need to go coilovers afterall :shrug:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/Fordguy545/88%20t-bird%20tc/SNV30771.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/Fordguy545/88%20t-bird%20tc/SNV30773.jpg)
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: V8Demon on February 05, 2009, 10:02:53 PM
That's a rather large difference side to side in the rear.  My new rear springs fixed mine in the back.  The front is still about 1/4" higher on the passenger side...

Has the car ever been hit?
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 05, 2009, 10:19:25 PM
I dont think so.  I havent found anything on the car that has any signs that it has been hit.  I was really hoping changing the springs would fix it:mad:
Currently, I dont think I will be able to put this on our drive on lift considering my lip kept getting caught on it before.  This is making me strongly consider coilovers on all 4 corners.  What do you have to do to get the rears to work right.  I read somewhere that you have to weld all that stuff so that it would take the stress?
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 05, 2009, 10:19:46 PM
It would look better if the back was higher. Mine has the same drivers side tilt - I couldn't fix it even my taking 30lb of the drivers side via a Odyssey battery. I ended up using a 1/4" spacer on the drivers side front only & that did the job. In the rear I have full adjustability for height with the CHE adjustables - best choice if you can afford them. I'm using the Mach1 springs BTW.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 05, 2009, 10:38:11 PM
Well, i boxed the rear control arms and added poly bushings throughout.  I'm trying to be more competitive in autox.  I was planning to buy the che arms till dad pretty much told me I was stupid buying what I could make.  Oh well, Its been apart over a month, and I still gotta put almost the entire interior back in.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: DVP on February 06, 2009, 02:43:21 AM
You can always make ramps to get on the lift
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Chuck W on February 06, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Those rear springs are WAAAAAAYYYYY too light in regards to load rating.  Something to the tune of about 400# PER spring.

No amount of raising the back will solve that.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: dominator on February 06, 2009, 07:36:52 AM
The che's are way better hands down than any boxed stock arm.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 06, 2009, 01:15:23 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;255516
Those rear springs are WAAAAAAYYYYY too light in regards to load rating.  Something to the tune of about 400# PER spring.

No amount of raising the back will solve that.


Can you explain the load rating - I'm finding it difficult to find a definition. My assumption is that it's related to coil bind, but I'm not sure as I've also read where thin wire with fewer coils/inch can give a good spring rate but not be able to handle the loads without permanent deformation. Is the issue you're describing "short spring" or "overstressed wire"?
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Chuck W on February 06, 2009, 01:46:16 PM
Basically how much load the spring can handle before being compressed.

Those C-kit rear springs, while having a high spring rating (stiffness), aren't able to handle much in the way of loading.
Not sure of the exact cause of the "issue", but the load rating is pretty low and not meant for these cars.

I don't have my numbers here in front of me, but I can tell you it's a significant amount.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 06, 2009, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;255552
Basically how much load the spring can handle before being compressed.

Those C-kit rear springs, while having a high spring rating (stiffness), aren't able to handle much in the way of loading.
Not sure of the exact cause of the "issue", but the load rating is pretty low and not meant for these cars.

I don't have my numbers here in front of me, but I can tell you it's a significant amount.


I was wondering as this data is extremely hard to find and over 50% of the people that use the term "load rating" are really talking about "spring rate" :beatyoass:

I'm using the 250#/inch Mach 1 springs and I have no idea what their load rating is. Can I assume that someone with a "show/drag racing" car that keeps a clean trunk with not even a spare in there & never carries passengers can be less concerned about these load ratings?
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Chuck W on February 06, 2009, 02:32:07 PM
Nah, when I say "load rating" I mean load rating.

This info used to be on the spring tags themselves, and at one time I had factory paperwork for I think 96-98 Mustangs on what each of the 3-letter spring codes were and the resultant load ratings.  IIRC, when they changed their coding/partnumbers, etc in 99, I think the useful info changed on the spring tags.  Don't remember.

For example, I think there were 4 or 5 different rear springs for the V8 Mustangs, and all had the same spring rate, but a different load rating( based on options, etc).

Rough numbers...  Fox Tbird/Cougars have a load rating of roughly 940#.  SN-95's were rated around 700-750#.  The C-Kit rears were barely 600#, if that.

I have the info at home, and I know I have mentioned it here before as well.

Your Mach 1 springs are less than 800# load rating I would imagine.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Kitz Kat on February 06, 2009, 03:41:38 PM
I'm getting confused, we are talking about c's being weak right?
I would think they are. I love the details, considering I'm doin my front soon." again"
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2009, 04:54:40 PM
Quote
I love the details, considering I'm doin my front soon." again"


Go with those Moog 1598's  ;)

I'm diggin them mucho.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Kitz Kat on February 06, 2009, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: V8Demon;255580
Go with those Moog 1598's ;)
 
I'm diggin them mucho.

I already got the machs and spacers and a plan. But anything new that might change my mind , Wouldn't take much.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 06, 2009, 06:25:23 PM
Quote
Nah, when I say "load rating" I mean load rating.


Yeah, I know you are talking about the real load rating, but I haven't been able to find a reliable source anywhere on the internet (using search engines) that clearly defines the term, & as I stated earlier - many simply don't use it correctly which makes searching seem futile.

Quote
Your Mach 1 springs are less than 800# load rating I would imagine.


My experience is that these are more than adequate for my use. I'm very happy with the extra stiffness and less suspension travel. It minimizes the possible binding issues associated with the stiffer bushings on the CHE control arms. They work good at the racetrack too.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Chuck W on February 06, 2009, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;255570
I'm getting confused, we are talking about c's being weak right?
I would think they are. I love the details, considering I'm doin my front soon." again"


The rears...not the fronts.

Quote from: Cougar5.0;255593



My experience is that these are more than adequate for my use. I'm very happy with the extra stiffness and less suspension travel. It minimizes the possible binding issues associated with the stiffer bushings on the CHE control arms. They work good at the racetrack too.


I use SN-95 'vert rears in my cars, they are the heaviest rated of the lot.  The ones you're using, while lighter, are still much heavier than the C-Kits.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 07, 2009, 01:14:22 AM
I think I'm just going to have to spring for the coilovers.  I just cant see this working the way I want it to.  Suggestions on best double adjustable shocks and struts?  Spring rates for them?  I know I will have to reinforce the rear shock mounts so they dont rip out
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 07, 2009, 10:23:32 PM
ok, well at this point, I guess the car handled almost predictibly on the stock springs, so I might just throw those back in and change later on when I can actually get suggestions from somebody
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 07, 2009, 11:04:59 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;255626
I use SN-95 'vert rears in my cars, they are the heaviest rated of the lot.  The ones you're using, while lighter, are still much heavier than the C-Kits.


Agreed. Here's the difference between the stock 20th springs & the Mach1 rears.

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e360/Domeskull/DSCF1244.jpg)
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 07, 2009, 11:14:02 PM
so why are the mach 1 rears so much heavier?  The rear c springs were the same wire diameter as the tc springs, but they were spaced a little farther apart.  They looked about the same height as those too
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Clayton on February 07, 2009, 11:39:18 PM
i think that the birds sat low enough for my taste in the rear with the stockers... i had bullit rear springs... didnt like em... rear was lower than the nose. so in went the stockers lol. she sits nicely... would be great if I had more tire under it.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: Cougar5.0 on February 08, 2009, 12:19:00 AM
Without adjustable sping perches, the Mustang rears are unusable IMO.
Title: Put in C-springs for a test fit
Post by: fordguy545 on February 17, 2009, 10:39:41 PM
Well I put all the stock springs back in and will be adjusting spring rate nascar style with the rubber rings between coils.  Definately cheaper than going with coilovers too, lol.  Also noticed something interesting.  All new poly bushings, and I must have switched the springs side to side, because now its only an 1/8" low on the drivers side instead of an inch before.