Background - I've been jonesing for 4WD since I first learned about the GT-R, way before the faster and furiouser foolishness. Instead of rebuilding my T-bird, I was very close to getting an Evo or Suby rally car.
There's a Ford nut at my local autoparts and we've discussed various ways of getting power to the front wheels. Today I just learned from a thread on TF (http://"http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=026539") that some Jeeps came with T5s.
So, swap in a Jeep T5 that runs power to the front. The only thing left is to make a right angle to the wheels. How to do after that? No solid axle, this isn't for off-roading. What vehicles, if any, power the front wheels, have IFS, but no transaxle integrated with the motor?
that'd be pretty sick if you could do it. i'm sure it could be done... how much are ya willing to spend though? :P
I'm not familiar enough to say for certain, but what about the old Eagle/AMC/Jeep cars from the early 80's?
You know, the 4x4 ones...wonder what they had; I never had any experiences with one, other than to test drive one once that had a 304 swapped into it...I don't know what kind of front suspension/axle they have or had..
EDIT: looks like they'd probably not work:
Another feature was AMC Eagle's independent front suspension that was accomplished by mounting the front differential to the engine block with universal joints and half shafts to the front drive wheels. From Wikipedia, btw, link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Eagle
The GMC Cyclone.
There were a few AWD Thunderbird Supercoupes built in the early '90s. Apparently, Ford was in cahoots with Porsche and Dana to put 'em together.
I've seen pictures that, to me, was more than enough proof that at least one of them exists. I can't find the pictures right now, and SCCoA guards the images and information in their members section.
SCCoA is a cult.LOL.
I remember a thread about this before. The end result I had thought of was the Audi Quattro driveline. Maybe do a search back a couple years?
FWIW, the T5 only has an extension housing that the t-case bolts onto. You'd have to clear the floor to allow the t-case to fit, and run driveshafts front and back. Fitting the front would be tricky, too. Not impossible, though.
I had originally thought about using a Ford Ranger frame with the body channeled to fit over it when I wanted a full frame under my car for torque and hp strength. (decided to just do the sfc's and stuff instead)
what about the AWD tempo? if you can find one I think it would be the best to start with.
some of those new Dodge Chargers are AWD (i think it is sourced from Daimler). I am sure with enough $$$ thrown at this idea you could make it work.
hack up a subaru, beff up the suspension and throw your bird on it...lol
I've seen the pics of that AWD SC too, and it wasn't just a show queen. You could tell from the pics that the car was well driven. In fact, I remember it was quite rusty.
To make an AWD Fox car you'd have to re-engineer the whole front end. The suspension in these cars wouldn't work because the coil spring is where a half shaft would have to go. The K-member would get in the way of a differential housing. And the engine would get in the way of all of it. Basically everything foreward of the firewall would have to be custom built, and you would likely have to pass an axle through the oil pan in order to get the engine to sit low enough in the car. Then there is the floor issue, as HAVI noted - you'd have to do something with the floor and tranny tunnel to make room for a transfer case and front driveshaft.
HAVI's idea of using a Ranger frame and channeling the T-Bird body over it would probably be the best way to go. Probably be better to use an Explorer drivetrain, since you could go with a 5.0 and it has an AWD mode (Rangers are 4WD, not AWD). Better yet, use a newer Explorer frame and you could have IRS. The only problem with using a truck frame is that the engine might still sit too high over the axle. Trucks have deeper engine compartments, so hood clearance wasn't a priority for the engineers.
My car is already high enough to do this easily.
what about one of those oldsmobile toronados? those were v-8 FWD's.
this is an ongoing conversation i have been having with another member.....
in our opinions, the best parts would come from a 5.0 AWD explorer/mountaineer.
the AWD tcase in these models is fully mechanical with a viscous clutch.
the front diff is fixed to the frame, and CV axles extend out to the wheels. the front diff could come from any 98+ 4wd ranger as well.
these two components could be adapted to virtually any configuration w/enough diligence. you would then need to choose a FWD steering knuckle to adapt to the fox strut and lower balljoint, and convert to coilovers. custom driveshafts, and CV axles, etc..
we think it is a very doable project for someone with enough fab skills and/or money.
*edit
FWIW, you should also be able to find 4wd extension housings and output shafts for the T5 in s10's also. not sure if either(chevy or jeep) would have the correct t-case pattern for the explorer case; might need an adapter.
ahem....fellas...i thought about this recently myself...so i started asking around.....
http://forum.merkurclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13166&highlight=
enjoy...the homework has pretty much already been done...
if you'd like to see info on another idea i had...
http://www.newcougar.org/forums/3-0l-duratec-performance/130909-3-0-build-different-application.html
wow, i think i made a comment about this a while ago on another thread...now you actually want to do it...... wow i bet itll handle really good!!!
Donuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just throw two sho motors in a tempo...
J/K,
I'd start out with a front wheel drive 2.3, like the tempo.
Thanks for the responses.
Gumby, I remember reading that thread with interest.
Lumpy, thanks for the links.
I've been checking Jag X-types for a while. It's a related platform, so it might be a bolt-in, but I yet haven't put my hands on any of the pieces. It would be nice if I could use the other Folvo. If that doesn't prove practical, a small turbo V-6 might work.
I hadn't considered the Euro parts, inconveniently located.
Aerostar parts might be the way to go.
Having owned an AWD Volvo I can categorically say STAY THE HELL AWAY!!! JUNK!!!!! !!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
Stay away from the Jag parts?
I dunno about Jag. I just noticed you said "Folvo" and thought you might be contemplating using that mess.
But given Jag's reputation for quality, I'd say it'd be a safe bet to warn against it, too :hick:
Too late, the trigger's pulled on that one. Twice.
Jags are good donors for old Ford trucks. The Folvo has an 8.8 rear end, but the rest may not be so good. The Aerostar/Windstar are alright, but the t-case is all electronic and touchy. And now that I remember, the Audi's engine sits forward of the front wheels.
The only US car the X-type is related to is the Contour/Mystique.
As for using a FWD escort 2.3L, are you guys well? How exactly is that going to work in a T-bird? He's looking for AWD, not FWD. A transverse 2.3L in a Fox-body? AWD, one step forward. Escort drivetrain, two steps back. And I wouldn't look too closely at any AWD version of the Escort (the Australians had a turbo AWD one that looked identical to ours) either. By the time you put this on a car that's as heavy as our Thunderbirds are, with a custom DS as long as it needs to be, I'm going to guess you'll spend a whole lot of money to have a whole lot of broken Escort parts in a stationary T-bird. That system was designed to push a compact around, not a 17' long full-size coupe.
I also think this is a matter of using Explorer parts, but the car will likely have to be lifted, for hood clearance, as someone else stated.
You are aware that R32's can be imported, right? ;)
Actually, I heard that one of the main companies for importing Skylines just got into some sort of legal trouble, so it may be very difficult to snag one into the states any time soon. Not sure, though. :(
Anyways, I remember this topic coming up before on the forum. Lots of talk about using Mountaineer parts.
There are a lot of importers to choose from. I'm not surprised that one was making sketchy deals, but the options are still wide open for bringing them in.
oldraven,
The way it was explained to me X-Type > Lincoln LS > New Edge > Fox,
where ">" = "related to"
Maybe that should be "S-Type" instead of "X-Type"?
As for the Skylines, there are some nice looking examples and they can be built to really scream, but T-birds are better looking. In other words, the answer to that classic question is "Ginger and Mary Ann."
The easiest option would be to just buy something that's already AWD like... the all wheel drive Tempo??? :wtf:
Or an AMC eagle, now those were good cars.
Here's a few pics of the AWD SC, they must've drove that thing through all the salt they could find, and then drove it through a salt mine. :hick:
Should Tempo and good car, be used in the same sentence??:hick:
Well, there just one problem. You see, the Tempo has two too many doors. Another problem, it's too slow. Wait, there's something else ... I just can't quite, oh yeah, now I remember. It's a
T.E.M.P.O.!:barf:
Please feel free to reread the above paragraph substituting "AMC eagle" for "Tempo".
If I'm going to to go out and buy a 4wd car, it's going to look and perform something like this (http://"http://www.carfolio.com/images/dbimages/zgas/models/id/15505/1996_porsche_911_carrera_4s_993.jpg").
Yes, that's the S-Type. The X-type was on a Mondeo chassis, which sat under the Contour/Mystique. The S-type is on a RWD chassis, which is a DEW (Lincoln LS/Retro-bird), not a Fox. The AWD X-type was on a FWD chassis, but Jag didn't feel it could sell a FWD in the US, so they developed an AWD system.
How about like this.
What about using an MN12 pumpkin with struts, spindles, halfshafts, etc from a Lincoln Continental?
Only problem I see is where to put the pumpkin.
That's not a bad idea. Some of those Continentals had the InTech 32V 4.6.
Here's an idea. <--Famous last words.
Take the whole engine and trans from a fwd 3.0 duratec, like a taurus. Turn the whole assembly sideways. Now you have 1 cv shaft going forward and 1 going to the rear. You would likely want to change the final drive in the fwd transmission to the tallest one you can find, and use tall gears in the front and rear diffs. They use this set up with a 4 cylinder in custom rock buggies. You might have to cut the floorboard on the passenger side a little, but with the engine and trans pushed back as far as possible it would help weight distribution. Or you could use all that extra space up front for a fat turbo. Sounds pretty ambitious, but I think it's pretty ambitious wither way.
Weird, I have been thinking this same thing lately. I was gonna use an i-6 from a gmc envoy. It has hole in the oil pan for a front diff already.:evilgrin:
just get a truck trans axle and make some clearance. Thats all awd is anyways. Throw a locker in there and maybe a truck tranny.
All I can think is MAJOR frame work. Where are the front axles going to pass though? Might be high enough now that I think about it.
Alot of work but it could be done. I am thinking the best place to start would be the AWD Aerostars, just a guess though. Never seen how they are set up. I think you are going to have more problems with room than anything.
With the extra weight what are you going to do for power? I am not positive on this but I though I read that Vulcan Aerostar trannies mount up to SHO 3.0/3.2. IF there was an AWD Vulcan powered Aerostar there you go. I am not positive on ANY of this though. Just dreaming.
Speaking of dreaming I need to make a thread of what I have been thinking up....
Using axles for drive shafts? WARNING! THIS FLAG IS RED!
Can you email me a full size pic of that? I lost the one I had back from when it was for sale.
dakota suspention. independent with a fixed axel and half shafts
I really think the best way to go would be a areostar suspension with a shortend drive shaft. You could set the body of the car on top of a ranger frame, or weld it into the inside to the floor. The aerostar has a unibody with a frame, based off of the ranger. It had a 4.0 v-6 optional, so I'll bet there would be a way to mount a 5.0 inside of it, possible using explorer parts, and all you would really have to do is modify the length of the of the drive shaft, and possibly even use your stock rear end and engine.
i also think the areostar suspention would be the best way to go. But looking at the AWD SC what i saw was it was already coilover suspention in the frount so the space where the frount springs on the fox were are now open to accept the halfshafts. But the only thing on the foxes would have to be fabbed up would be the upper controlling arm. and as far as a k member. yeah the stock fox one would be in the way. and as you see on the AWD SC the k member was fabbed anyway. I know that is not a stock part. Im unsure of what vehicle it would of come out of but it doesn't look that hard to fab. Yes it would be alot of work but very possible. And by the looks of it they did use the aerostar suspention on the frount of the AWD SC.