I'm planning on installing the new Hella lights tomorrow.I'm looking at the harness (new harness came with the lights)and can figure most of it out.Two plugs to the lights...check. one plug to the relay....check. One wire with a fuse to the hot side of the battery....check. One for ground....check. Now,I have one more plug that goes to the switch,but the plug won't fit any switch I've seen.There's 3 wires....yellow,black,and blue.Which wire is for what?I would guess black is ground (usually).The other two I don't now.I'll add clips to the wires and plug them to the switch.
Second question,there's a blue wire on the harness that is wrapped like the rest and off to it's own.What would that be for?
If there's three wires for a switch one would be ground (for a lighted switch), one would be power input (from the battery) and one would be power output (to the relay). On a typical three-pr0ng lighted switch the top wire is ground, the middle wire goes to the relay, and the bottom wire goes to the battery. This configuration allows the switch to light up when turned on.
Thanks Chicken.What do you think that the blue wire all alone in the harness does?There's a plug that goes to the relay.This blue wire as I stated,is wrapped like the rest of the harness,but it's out there by itself.I can't figure out what it would be.
As far as the switch wires,I figure black is ground,usually is,blue hot and yellow to the relay then.I suppose I can try it and if it doesn't work,swap 'em.
the only way to figure this out is to sit there with a meter and tone out the switch and draw it out. your going to need to have a bulb/socket to bench test it before hand using your car battery.
switches with an LED proviision can be confussing, working the switch into a relay configuration makes it worse.
does your kit come with a new relay or are you using a factory option existing relay on the car?
The last time I did this in bulk was for the army in iraq. the soldiers often would order IR / Spot / Go light kits and have us wire them up. I remember making a mistake on one the lead that had the LED but did not repeat that. I know i have a drawing in my "Buffalo quick ref Guide" i drafted up for DOD , ill try to dig it up. Im pretty sure its exactly what you are looking for and contains the relay / switch / lighting layout.
The problem is this information resides on my sony laptop now owned by my son. I recently deleted pretty much everything on my side of that computer so by luck there might still be a folder with ths information.
Are there five wires in the relay harness? If so that extra one is probably not used. Most relays have five terminals: 85, 86, 87, 87a, and 30. 85 and 86 are the coil terminals, the ones that energize the relay when you power & ground 'em up. 30 is usually the high current feed (connected to battery). 87 is the output to the fog lights and is only energized when the relay is energized. 87a is energized when the relay is
NOT energized, and is not used in most applications (it's a useful terminal in many other circuits though - circuits that you want to break when you power the relay, such as an anti-theft/starter interrup system).
If that wire is the "87a" wire it is very important that you tape it up (or, better still, remove the terminal from the relay plug). It is hot any time the relay is not turned on.
This is a stand alone harness.The relay has 4 pr0ngs on it,and the harness has a plug for each light,a plug to the relay,a wire with an inline fuse and a lug on the end (to hook it to the battery or power source),a ground wire with a lug on the end,then the small plug for the switch,but the plug won't work on the switch.The light kit came with a harness,new Hella lights,relay,and switch (plus fasteners).I'll try to grab a couple of pics.
Pics of what I'm talking about...
#1. To the switch
#2. the lone blue wire
#3. To the battery with an inline fuse
#4. Relay and plug
#5. Ground
#6./7. to the lights
The harness...
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/000_1052.jpg)
The switch plug...
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/000_1053.jpg)
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/000_1060.jpg)
The blue wire....
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/Vinnietbird/000_1054.jpg)
The blue wouldn't be so that the lighted switch dims...
Sort of like when hooking up a newer stereo, they have a wire that you can attach so the radio dimms when you dim you dash lights?
Just a shot in the dark for me.... I know nothing about electrical .
This is strictly a guess, but I'd say the blue wire is a second, low current power wire - the switch feed. The relay would draw its high current power directly from the battery (the wire you've got labeled #3), but the switch feed would draw its power either from the low beam circuit (to make the fog lights work only with the low beam headlights on, as most vehicles are wired from the factory) or an ignition-switched power source (to prevent the fog lights from coming on when the key is off). That blue wire you see in the switch harness is probably the other end of the loose blue wire. The yellow wire in the switch harness would go either to 85 or 86 on the relay.
Here, I've done up a diagram to show you how it should be wired (I even included a factory style switch, since I'm sure you've got one :D). When the switch is on the blue and yellow wires would be connected together, which sends power to the relay's coil. The yellow wire is also connected to the internal bulb inside the switch, so it will light up when the switch is on:
Well,I'm going to have to cut the plug off of the switch end and install the new clips to hook up to the new switch.The TC switch I had broke.No big deal,I can fit any switch into that spot.I'll hook them to the switch and see what happens.The wires to my relay have a plug already,so they only fit one way to the relay.That helps.It's been years since I hooked up lights like this.
i searched for my diagram,, no go,, deleted and im not sure out to undelete a file anymore in what was refered to in the old days as doss shell. XP is something totally different. If i were given instructions on how to undelete, then I know for a fact i have the diagram you need.
I'm patient.One way or another it'll come together.I installed the lights yesterday,but not the harness yet.I ran out of time.
tc
when the switch is flipped , wouldnt that put the assumed low current blue wire power feed directly to ground?
can you lable the relay to show the location of 30, 85, 86, 87 ( i assume 87a is the non provisioned center part of the base)
vinnie
Is the switch a one, two or three position? i assume two., on/off.
I assume your plans are to use the factory existing fog lamp switch in your bird?
On the relay, the black and yellow wires would be 85 and 86. The red wire would be 30, and the green would be 87. 87a is indeed the missing center terminal (which is probably actually present on Vinnie's relay, but there is no wire in the harness).
Good eye on the switch. I kinda skimped on the schematic for the inside of the switch. The terminal layout and connections are correct for the TC fog light switch, but the wiring inside the switch is slightly different than what I showed here. The proper wiring for inside the switch is shown below. The "wiper" in the switch, the piece that moves and makes the electrical contact, is always connected to the yellow wire that goes to 85 (or 86) on the relay. When turned on the wiper makes a contact between the blue power input and the yellow power output and energizes the relay, while also energizing the bulb inside the switch. When the switch is off the wiper makes contact between the yellow wire and ground. This essentially grounds both sides of the bulb inside the switch, and also grounds both sides of the relay coil (both 85 and 86 will see ground). Because both sides are grounded and the blue wire is isolated no power flows, so the fog lights (and the indicator in the switch) do not light.
Anyway, here's how the TC foglight switch is
really wired inside:
I'm using an aftermarket switch that fits into the factory place.I was window shopping on Ebay and saw a cool remote control setup for the fog lights.It really wouldn't serve a useful purpose for me,but it was cool.....and cheap.LOL. Hopefully soon I'll get the harness hooked up.I ran out of time today.I'll keep everyone posted on my results.
Don't know if this helps any, but here is Hella's site for wiring diagrams and installation instructions for downloading:
http://www.hella.com/produktion/HellaUSA/WebSite/Channels/Drivers/FAQs/FAQs.jsp
Not sure if the ones you have are listed as I am unsure which set you have, but they sure look nice.
thats half the answer,,lol
So Ill make this simple and here is what I would do.
-Polarity is important on the coil of the relay
-measure across any given contacts until you find two that have no continuity across them even when meter leads are reversed.
-these will be your relay contacts. I assume they shipped a Normally Open relay for this application (ie- the reason for only 4 connections).
-Next and this is important.... measure across the other two contacts. You should read the coil resistance one way and the coil in parallel with the diode in the other. when you find the diode, your meter will read something along the lines of .3 to .6 ohms. when this happens, wherever your red meter lead is at this point happens to be your pos input connection. the black meter lead is the respective relay coil ground.
-normally when its difficult to determine which of the remaining two legs is input power, i gator clip to a dc source and connect one leg to neg.
-next i barely and quickly tap power to the other and listen for a click.
-if there is no click, reverse your polarity.
from this point you established which leg of the coil is pos and neg so you can now wire it up per option 1 below.
I would wire the kit up like drawn. Im not really sure why you dont want to integrate your existing harness into this kit but thats up to you.
You might already have some or most of the wiring in place.
I would fuse / wire as ive drawn because it reduces wiring required. It also puts less or no watts across the on/off switch. It also protects both independent circuits. In short, you only need to run one wire up to the fog lamp system keeping all control parts up near the hidden side of the switch....purdy nifty eh?
The reason i held off on my end is because with a three wire toggle sw as shown in the factory diagram and option 2, its real darn hard to tell which contact is just the power path. A man could easily read continuity from one leg to both of the other two legs and wonder which one is the led power path and which one is the lamp power path due to lack of manufacturers stamping ect. Next thing you know, you have blown the purdy lil bulb in the switch but the other power path still exists. The bad part to this is that the LED path is typically inline with the relay coil ground (low current) and if the bulb is blown, the relay will not get a ground as shown in option 2.
I suppose you could also join the relay coil input to the relay contact input with a single 20-30A fuse if you want, your call.
Its up to you though, just compare TC's and my drawings and get er done:hick:
..Or he could just wire it the way I showed, and be able to use all the stock wiring and relay harness that came with his fog light kit :hick: No need to complicate things.
Vinnie, you don't need to worry about coil polarity because your harness already takes care of that for you (if it even has a polarity sensitive relay, which I doubt it would, since it would be a more expensive relay and the polarity is not important with fog lights). Your harness only plugs into the relay one way and you know black is ground. The diagram I provided would be the correct diagram for your wiring harness, but even my diagram isn't really needed since you've got the harness and are not starting out from scratch. All you need to know is that black goes to ground, red goes to the battery, and blue goes to either the low beam circuit or an ignition switched power source, depending on how you want your fog lights to work. If you connect it to a low beam the fog lights will only work when the low beams are on. If you connect it to an ignition source they'll work any time the ignition is on (this is how mine are wired). You could connect it to the park light circuit as well, this would make it so that the fog lights only work when the park lights are on. That's it, really: The only decision you have to make is where to put that blue wire.
As for your switch: I'm assuming you're using a standard 3-pr0ng rocker switch with an indicator light. If this is the case, cut the switch plug off your Hella harness and connect the three wires (black, yellow, and blue) to the switch as shown in my diagram below. The orientation of the switch is important to get the polarity correct - the switch is shown upright (you push in the top part of the switch to turn it on) in my diagram. In this orientation the top wire is ground (black), the center wire is the output to the fog lights (yellow), and the bottom wire is power feed (blue). That's all you need to know to make it work with your harness.
SWEEEEEEET !!!!!! I'll get on that Monday I hope.THANKS A LOT !!!!
yep,, that be the exact switch layout i was explaining. I concluded that the center of that type of switch was "common" so I made it and the LED contact as my fog lamp output. Blew LED right away.
Ok, I have put off wiring my fogs long enough. My car has never had fogs. I have purchased a stock fog switch and stock fogs with the wiring harness. I would like to run them straight without wiring them into the dimmer switch. I have purchased a generic wiring harness from autozone. The instructions look straight forward enough.
I am, however a bit confused. My stock fog switch has a black, brown/orange, and blue/black wire coming off of it and I'm not sure what each goes to.
The wiring harness that plugs into the fogs has two spades inside of them. The wires that come out of the back are black and brown/orange on one, and on the other I have a black, brown/orange, and a lighter brown/orange wires. The black is probably the ground, and the brown/orange is the positive... but what is the third, lighter brown/orange wire?
My theory is that you connect the two brown/orange wires together, which connects the two lights together, and maybe the lighter brown/orange wire goes to the relay to lamp wire (White).
The only thing is, that there is a connector on this white (relay to lamp wire) that I can connect two wires to.
So, my theory is that I could eather run both brown/orange wires to this white wire and not utilize the lighter brown/orange wire. -OR- I could connect these two wires together, and then run the lighter brown/orange wire to the white.
Then would I connect the two black wires together and run a single wire for a ground?
One thing to know is that I don't know jack S*** about electrical stuff, so if you reply speak sssllloooowwwwwwlllyyy. LOL
The stock hookup for non-auto lamp feature cars is:
Headlight switch-dimmer switch(lo beam side)-fuse 7-fog light switch.
Black is ground for the light in the switch
Brown/orange(tan/orange in EVTM) is the + voltage from the switch to the fog lights.
Blue/black is the + voltage coming into the switch.
Correct but the EVTM does not show the extra wire.
Is it paired up with the other brown/orange wire?
Here you are losing me. There is no relay in the stock hookup. Are you now talking about the Autozone harness? If so can you post a diagram of it?
Here is the stock diagram:
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetk5cc/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Fogs.jpg)