Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

General => User Rides => Topic started by: 5.0 tbird on September 10, 2008, 10:20:59 PM

Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 10, 2008, 10:20:59 PM
A new china Cobra intake, Professional Products 65mm throttle body, and the stock MAF intake hoses I've been trying to find for almost a year now. :hick:

359.95 for the intake, 126.95 for the throttle body, and only 14.95 to ship from 50resto. It was just too tempting so I went ahead and got em.

It really has made a noticeable difference in power that I can feel. These intakes are good for 10-15 rwhp even with E7s while keeping the torque that you get with long runners. The cobra intake runners are just huge compared to a HO intake. And the best part is that when I do heads and cam I'll already have the intake.

The intake tubes came from Delk Performance in Lebanon, TN. They said they have a bunch so give em a call if you need one and they'll ship it.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-09-08/DSCI0311.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-09-08/DSCI0314.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-09-08/DSCI0316.jpg)
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: vinnietbird on September 10, 2008, 11:02:30 PM
Sweet.Not only are those parts better than stock,they add a little eye candy as well.Two thumbs up for you.....and the Mark.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 11, 2008, 12:02:23 AM
Thanks Vinnie. I also forgot that I put new Gabriel Ultra struts and shocks on. That made a huge difference since the ones on there were the originals and had almost 140,000 miles. :eek:
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: vinnietbird on September 11, 2008, 06:39:37 AM
I am surprised you didn't get an aftermarket CAI setup for the car with the filter inside the fender.Still,it looks great.How are the shocks and struts doing?I would like to replace my air shocks and struts as well.The air shocks are kept low,but I use them if I have to haul the groceries (2 baskets worth) so the car won't sink in the rear.My front strut bushing need replaced as well.I'll eventually get to that.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: Carpimp1987 on September 11, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
Looks good and the car should run a little or a lot better.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 11, 2008, 04:40:17 PM
Looks good:D

Did ya have fun getting the distributor in? The *Chinese* GT40 lowers don't have the notch in the water outlet that the factory ones do, which makes it fun to get the distributor in right.

Oh and if you want a cheap MAF upgrade get the sensor(part# starts with F2VF) and housing from a 93-94 Crown Vic, Town Car, or Grand Marq. The are 70mm and plug and play with the stock A9# series MAF computers. I'm running one now in place of the stock 55mm MAF with my A9P and it improved throttle response a bit. Plus it's a cheap upgrade :hick:
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 11, 2008, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;235806
I am surprised you didn't get an aftermarket CAI setup for the car with the filter inside the fender.Still,it looks great.How are the shocks and struts doing?I would like to replace my air shocks and struts as well.The air shocks are kept low,but I use them if I have to haul the groceries (2 baskets worth) so the car won't sink in the rear.My front strut bushing need replaced as well.I'll eventually get to that.


On anything but a highly modified motor the best intake setup imo is to run a K&N filter and remove the air silencer since the stock airbox gets cold air from the fender and has the capacity to flow plenty of cfm to the motor. The main restriction in the intake is the stock filter and the milk jug. Anything else just isn't needed until you're at H/C/I or a stroker. I have been thinking about a larger MAF since it's only 55mm. Money----->:flame:

As far as the struts. Everything I've read says that Gabriels are the best for the money and that none of the Monroes last any time before they're mushy. Mark VIIs use the same front struts as a Mustang SVO so not just any Mustang strut bolts right on. But for 135.00 front and rear the Gabriels give the best ride and life.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 11, 2008, 05:23:20 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;235861
Looks good:D

Did ya have fun getting the distributor in? The *Chinese* GT40 lowers don't have the notch in the water outlet that the factory ones do, which makes it fun to get the distributor in right.

Oh and if you want a cheap MAF upgrade get the sensor(part# starts with F2VF) and housing from a 93-94 Crown Vic, Town Car, or Grand Marq. The are 70mm and plug and play with the stock A9# series MAF computers. I'm running one now in place of the stock 55mm MAF with my A9P and it improved throttle response a bit. Plus it's a cheap upgrade :hick:


Actually I didn't really have a problem getting it in, but I did notice that there's not much room to adjust timing now.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: V8Demon on September 11, 2008, 06:57:51 PM
The power increase with a Cobra intake on an otherwise stock motor comes mainly from the fact that the stock 5.0 lower is the biggest bottleneck on the intake side of the equation for the entire engine.  Thei beuty is in the fact that they allow a great amout of room for additional mods as far as flow potential is concerned and they are good looking to boot.

Quote

I have been thinking about a larger MAF since it's only 55mm


I've always been a fan of making sure your MAF can flow the same or more CFM than the throttle body....
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 1WLD BRD on September 11, 2008, 07:08:32 PM
I hope you made a proper baffle for under that intake before you bolted it on....

looks good though...  and yes they do add quite a bit of power....
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 11, 2008, 10:19:58 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;235861
Looks good:D

Did ya have fun getting the distributor in? The *Chinese* GT40 lowers don't have the notch in the water outlet that the factory ones do, which makes it fun to get the distributor in right.

Oh and if you want a cheap MAF upgrade get the sensor(part# starts with F2VF) and housing from a 93-94 Crown Vic, Town Car, or Grand Marq. The are 70mm and plug and play with the stock A9# series MAF computers. I'm running one now in place of the stock 55mm MAF with my A9P and it improved throttle response a bit. Plus it's a cheap upgrade :hick:


How are you using a Crown Vic MAF if they use a bolt on  like a 94-95 Mustang GT?

The only ones I've seen that are 70mm that would physically work are for a 91-95 Thunderbird SC, 93 Cobra, or a 94-95 4.6 Thunderbird, and then I would have to swap my stock sensor into the housing.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 12, 2008, 12:43:36 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;235915
How are you using a Crown Vic MAF if they use a bolt on  like a 94-95 Mustang GT?

The only ones I've seen that are 70mm that would physically work are for a 91-95 Thunderbird SC, 93 Cobra, or a 94-95 4.6 Thunderbird, and then I would have to swap my stock sensor into the housing.


DO NOT use the housings you have listed with the stock 55mm MAF sensor. They will cause false readings and/or a lean condition which can screw your engine.

Yes you can use the 94-95 Mustang GT MAF (same as the Crown Vic) easily. Just cut off the  with a Dremel, grind it down smooth and tada a blot on 70mm MAF :D. I didn't bother with the MAF bracket as it's secure enough with just the tubes, plus there is no where to bolt the bracket to the MAF housing. Oh and use the F2VF sensor than is on the housing, not the stock 55mm sensor in the Crown Vic housing;)
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: V8Demon on September 12, 2008, 02:18:25 PM
http://www.graphicsdept.com/walbro/product/auto_aft/mass/forda.htm
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 12, 2008, 11:44:15 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;235963
DO NOT use the housings you have listed with the stock 55mm MAF sensor. They will cause false readings and/or a lean condition which can screw your engine.

Yes you can use the 94-95 Mustang GT MAF (same as the Crown Vic) easily. Just cut off the  with a Dremel, grind it down smooth and tada a blot on 70mm MAF :D. I didn't bother with the MAF bracket as it's secure enough with just the tubes, plus there is no where to bolt the bracket to the MAF housing. Oh and use the F2VF sensor than is on the housing, not the stock 55mm sensor in the Crown Vic housing;)


That's true about the smaller diameter, I forgot about that. A 94-95 Mustang MAF in a 93 Cobra/SC housing would work also wouldn't it? Since they're both 70mm. That's basically what I did when I had my Thunderbird, and it was fine.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 88BlueBird on September 13, 2008, 11:18:34 AM
I put a 70mm cobra MAF on my car, but I programmed a chip with the factory 70mm transfer function. The transfer function for the 55mm MAF and 70mm MAF are very close though (especially at low air flow). That's why alot of people can install the 70mm in place of the 55mm and the car runs fine (although maybe a little lean on the top end).
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 13, 2008, 03:05:54 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;236006
That's true about the smaller diameter, I forgot about that. A 94-95 Mustang MAF in a 93 Cobra/SC housing would work also wouldn't it? Since they're both 70mm. That's basically what I did when I had my Thunderbird, and it was fine.


It *should* work. I tried it with mine (put the 94 Mustang F2VF MAF sensor in the 70mm housing from my 95 T-bird). It ran a bit funky. When I went back to the 94-95 Mustang housing with the F2VF sensor it was fine :dunno: . The only reason I can come up with is that the T-bird 70mm housing has a slightly longer sampling tub inlet which could affect flow somewhat.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 21, 2008, 05:37:01 PM
Here's the solution I used to eliminate the China Cobra intake oil consumption. :hick:

The air/oil seperator catches the oil that gets sucked up through the PCV in the clear container, and it sits there until it's full when you empty it. Meanwhile the filtered air without oil in it continues out the other side and is sucked into the upper intake. It does work. The car has stopped burning oil altogether that I can see, and there's oil in the bottom of the clear container. :D

I don't think I have 30.00 in the whole setup. The air/oil seperator was 11.95.

I also want to comment that Ford are douchebags for continuing to make a part that so obviously has this problem, and they are aware of it without making any attempt to fix it.


(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/engine.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/air-oilseperator.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/air-oilseperator1.jpg)
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: vinnietbird on September 21, 2008, 05:53:56 PM
I may just try that.Nice work,and good thinking.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on October 06, 2008, 09:31:38 PM
I've done some more looking into upgrading the MAF to a 70mm, and here's some more theory about what I've found. :wtf:

What I discovered is that a 93 Cobra MAF isn't a good idea unless you tune for it. Like 88Bluebird said: It runs about the same at lower CFM, but the transfer gradually skews and at high CFMs it's 13% leaner.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/93cobra-maf-vs-stock-gt-maf.html

From what I read, the stock EEC programming can only deal with +-8%.

The good news I found out is that thunderjet302 is right on about the F2VF-12B579-AA, A1A, A2A sensors being fine. What I read is that it's within +- 2% all the way through the CFMs. And you get the 70mm, which is what the upgrade is all about.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7653035&postcount=9

Also, I found out that you can put a F2VF-12B579 sensor in a 93 Cobra/91-95 Thunderbird SC housing and it is acceptable. GT-Rich on stangnet measured the dimensions between the 93 Cobra housing and the F2VF housing, and they're identical.

With this you can avoid cutting off the  or buying a  adapter. You just tighten the hose clamps and take off. :hick:

Quote
Inlet ID = 3.25 in. for both units
Outlet ID = 2.95 in. for both units

Sampling Tube ID = .395 in. for both units
Sampling Tube OD = .640 in. for both units


http://forums.stangnet.com/635336-94-95-maf-no--required-pics.html

I am in possession of both of these sensors, and will verify his measurements. If they are the same then there's no reason at all that this would function any differently than the F2VF housing. :D
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: daboss351 on October 07, 2008, 11:00:22 AM
thats what you do on the newer cobras to stop the oil from being sucking in
good idea
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: blackcougar71 on October 07, 2008, 02:04:28 PM
where did you get the oil seperator from?
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 07, 2008, 07:01:32 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;238660
I've done some more looking into upgrading the MAF to a 70mm, and here's some more theory about what I've found. :wtf:

What I discovered is that a 93 Cobra MAF isn't a good idea unless you tune for it. Like 88Bluebird said: It runs about the same at lower CFM, but the transfer gradually skews and at high CFMs it's 13% leaner.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/93cobra-maf-vs-stock-gt-maf.html

From what I read, the stock EEC programming can only deal with +-8%.

The good news I found out is that thunderjet302 is right on about the F2VF-12B579-AA, A1A, A2A sensors being fine. What I read is that it's within +- 2% all the way through the CFMs. And you get the 70mm, which is what the upgrade is all about.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7653035&postcount=9

Also, I found out that you can put a F2VF-12B579 sensor in a 93 Cobra/91-95 Thunderbird SC housing and it is acceptable. GT-Rich on stangnet measured the dimensions between the 93 Cobra housing and the F2VF housing, and they're identical.

With this you can avoid cutting off the  or buying a  adapter. You just tighten the hose clamps and take off. :hick:



http://forums.stangnet.com/635336-94-95-maf-no--required-pics.html

I am in possession of both of these sensors, and will verify his measurements. If they are the same then there's no reason at all that this would function any differently than the F2VF housing. :D



You might be able to use the 70mm housing from a 94-95 T-bird/Cougar with a F2VF as well. I think it is the same as the SC and Cobra housing. I had a funky idle with the one from my 95 and the F2VF but it could be because I didn't reset the computer before swapping the 70mm MAF inplace of the 55mm one. When I reset the computer and stuck the modified Crown Vic sensor in it ran fine and continues to run fine. I'd go get another (94-95) housing to try but I'm swapping to 24 lb injectors and a C&L MAF over the winter so I'll just stick with my ground down sensor housing ;)
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 07, 2008, 07:07:50 PM
Quote from: 1WLD BRD;235896
I hope you made a proper baffle for under that intake before you bolted it on....

looks good though...  and yes they do add quite a bit of power....


Quote from: 5.0 bird;236886
Here's the solution I used to eliminate the China Cobra intake oil consumption. :hick:

The air/oil seperator catches the oil that gets sucked up through the PCV in the clear container, and it sits there until it's full when you empty it. Meanwhile the filtered air without oil in it continues out the other side and is sucked into the upper intake. It does work. The car has stopped burning oil altogether that I can see, and there's oil in the bottom of the clear container. :D

I don't think I have 30.00 in the whole setup. The air/oil seperator was 11.95.

I also want to comment that Ford are douchebags for continuing to make a part that so obviously has this problem, and they are aware of it without making any attempt to fix it.


(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/engine.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/air-oilseperator.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/09-21-08/air-oilseperator1.jpg)



This is why I used the Explorer GT40 intake. It's cheaper and has that nice big correct baffle installed from the factory ;)
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on November 07, 2008, 09:00:58 PM
They both have their problems lol. :D

Here's an update after trying to figure out why my catch can was losing oil. :hick:

The oil/air separator works, but it has a problem. The oil drains out the bottom of the reservoir unless you can find a way to seal it. It's a vacuum leak also. What I found out is that there's two different styles of the same Kobalt part number 220124. One has a push pull drain and the other has a manual twist drain (It's not a screw valve like I was hoping :mad:).

That doesn't matter because neither will work without having to modify it somehow, because they both depend on constant air pressure to keep the valve shut. :giggle: I used pieces of vacuum caps to force the valves shut all the time. Either one can be made to work, but I think the manual twist valve version is easier to modify.

There is a possibility that it could be done with a nut and bolt with washers and o-rings at both ends, but I don't know if the bottom of the reservoir is flat enough for it.

Manual Twist Drain Version

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI05931.jpg)

Manual Twist Drain version: I just took a small piece of vacuum hose and sandwiched it between the top of the valve and the cap nut with a small hole in it that goes on top of the valve. I put a vacuum cap over the drain nipple as a precautionary measure. EDIT: It just hit me that a cap nut of the right size and thread with some thread sealer would work.

Push-Pull Version
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0589.jpg)

The push-pull version can be made to work by using a tiny piece of vacuum hose as a spacer between the reservoir and the c-clip to pull down on the nipple all the time.
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on November 07, 2008, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: blackcougar71;238718
where did you get the oil seperator from?


It came from Lowe's :hick:
Title: Got a few new toys for the Mark
Post by: 5.0 tbird on November 07, 2008, 09:16:18 PM
I also want to update about the MAF sensors. I don't have a dial caliper so I couldn't get precise measurements, but here they are side by side.

The one of the left is the F1SE Cobra/SC housing, and the one of the right is the F2VF Crown Victoria housing.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0445.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0443.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0442.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0441.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0439.jpg)


(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0434.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0435.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0436.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0438.jpg)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/cb400f75/Mark%20vii/Misc/DSCI0437.jpg)