Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on October 05, 2007, 11:54:14 PM

Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 05, 2007, 11:54:14 PM
O.K.,I removed the E303,re-installed the H.O cam,and a new timing chain set.I triple checked to make sure the cam was in the right place,dot to dot,all is good.The car started right up and is idling pretty nice,BUT,when I put the car in gear,the engine is rough.In park,it easily revs to 6000 without problems.In gear,a whole different world.I'm going to replace the plugs and wires in the morning.Need to replace them anyway.I'm hoping its a dead plug or bad wire.I didn't get to check them because of other obligations this evening.I'm also wondering if the fuel pump may be partly to blame.It's worked fine,but,upon putting the key to the run position,it sounds a little sickly..I have one to install,I'll to do that Sunday after work.I only have about an hour tomorrow since we're going out of town.I'm looking for ideas on where to look.I'm tired and it's late,so,I'm probably missing the obvious.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: SRBird on October 06, 2007, 01:39:32 AM
Disconnect battery to reteach computer? Reset timing? 12 perhaps (mine runs good at 12). Check connection at air bypass? Vacuum leak? Somehow, if it ran ok before then the parts (ie fuel pump, air bypass) are probably still good.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 06, 2007, 08:36:22 AM
I'll disconnect the battery for a while.When you speak of the air bypass,I figure you mean the IAC.I've checked it,and it's good as well.This has me stumped right now,and I have to go out of town this afternoon.I am going to get the new plugs and wires now,and hopefully I'll see a difference.Keep the ideas coming just in case.See you guys later.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 06, 2007, 10:18:31 AM
O.K.,disconnected the battery for 30 minutes,new plugs and wires,and now the engines idles only slightly smoother,but when it's put into gear,it gets rough.Like I said,it idles great.I have been over it a hundred times.Timing dots on the new chain gears,dead on.New plugs gapped 50,new wires in the H.O,reverse rotation order,all of the vaccuum lines look good,no smoke from the exhaust.The number one plug wire is at the number one spot on the distributor cap.Now,before the cam swap,the wires were one over,meaning,it was as if all of the wires were moved back one place.It was like that when I got the engine.I haven't checked that idea.I don't know if the distributor gear was moved one tooth or not at that time.I know that when I installed the timing set,the engine was at TDC,and after the cam and timing chain install the rotor was pointing at the number one spot on the distributor cap,so,I wired it accordingly.I had thought MAYBE it's the fuel injectors,but,they'll let the car rev pretty well with no problems at all.With the trip today,my mind is overloaded.If you have any ideas,toss 'em on the table.

I just tried moving the wires back one spot.....no deal.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: 32VFoxBird on October 06, 2007, 04:25:56 PM
i take it you dont have a timing light?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87 on October 06, 2007, 07:21:39 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;181182
i take it you dont have a timing light?



sounds like it dont have enough timing in it.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: 88turbo on October 06, 2007, 09:50:11 PM
Quote from: SLEEPER T-BIRD 87;181206
sounds like it dont have enough timing in it.



:iagree:

I think we had this problem with my cougar when we installed the new engine.  12*-14* should be about right.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 06, 2007, 11:18:54 PM
We're sticking the light to it tomorrow.We tried everywhere with that distributor (moving it),and we got a semi decent idle,but still rough when we put it in gear.It's actually a little rough in idle now.I was wondering about the EGR causing any trouble.I'm replacing it tomorrow as well with a known good replacement from my Blue Bird.Thanks for the help guys,and if you think of anything else,let me know.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: CougarSE on October 07, 2007, 12:19:25 AM
Put a vacuum gage on it.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 07, 2007, 06:45:10 AM
I've got to work all day today.I'll see what I can do after work.I didn't home til late last night.I'm dragging right now.I'll post anything I can find when I get home and have a little time to check the Bird out.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: Innes on October 07, 2007, 08:56:48 AM
Being a tooth off should not mean anything as long as you time it right
Also make sure your firing order is right. 2 wires could be crossed and the car will idle fine till it’s under load.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: Kitz Kat on October 07, 2007, 02:59:13 PM
Hey Vinnie ,you put the new heads on to didn't you?
The seats and valves were cut?,you might need to shim your rockers.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 07, 2007, 04:11:51 PM
With the 3 angle valve job,do you think that the valves aren't closing all the way?They milled the heads 10 and did the valve job.Mild porting on the exhaust side,but that wouldn't cause this problem.Give me more info on the rocker shimming.I have the shims hanging in the garage.I know how,but why would that (needing shims) cause the car to run so rough.Oh,by the way,under acceleration,the car has some smoke....white smoke.I'm going to pull the new plugs in a few minutes and re-check them.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 07, 2007, 04:50:43 PM
The wires are fine.The plugs look good.I can't see that there's any water in the oil (mobile 1),all of the sensors sem fine.The timing is at 12,and we tried it at 10.I checked everywhere and no vacuum leaks.Baffled,truly baffled.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 07, 2007, 09:16:59 PM
I swapped the injectors with a rebuilt set,swaped the IAC,and I've yet to start it.In the morning we'll see if any of this makes a difference.I may change the PCV vlave tomorrow as well.I have one from my parts box and have no idea where it came from.It rattles when you shake it,and it may be my memory,or lack of it,but,when I hold it upside down,I can see light through it.That's not right is it?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 08, 2007, 07:07:03 AM
Still running like .For once,I may end up having to take the car to a shop.I don't think I know how to handle that.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 08, 2007, 11:54:18 AM
Just a thought but are you sure the intake is sealed tightly to the heads/block? You could have a very small leak that's causing this.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: flipnbird on October 08, 2007, 01:08:32 PM
i am also thinking vacuum leak, by the way-why did you take out the e- cam? just wondering
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: CougarSE on October 08, 2007, 01:30:03 PM
Vinnie..  Put a Vacuum gage on it.  it will tell you if your valves are not sealing.

READ THIS (everyone)

http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/vac/uum.htm
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 08, 2007, 04:44:33 PM
I'm checking the vacuum on it.

I pulled the E303 due to the fact I thought it was causing the problem.I don't think the cam is to blame.I think it may be electronic.I wonder if a bad Mas Air sensor would cause those shaking problems.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: JeremyB on October 08, 2007, 06:10:46 PM
KOEO and KOER codes...
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 08, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
I swapped the Mass Air sensor and no change,TPS,no change.I'm taking this car to a REALLY great Ford machanic Wednesday morning.I feel like a fool for having to take the Sport to the "doctor".I've done EVERYTHING on this car myself.Now,I can't figure it out at all.I'm hoping the computer is bad.A hundred bucks for a reman from Autozone.Easy fix.I wish I had an extra computer right now to check it out.If anyone can find the problem,this guy can.He is ALL about the 5.0.He races Mustangs,and builds Fords all the time.We'll see what happens.the codes and everything else will be checked Wednesday.Info when I bring the car home.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 09, 2007, 08:57:33 PM
I've been thinking about this problem,and have come to a conclusion.I think it's a head gasket.Even though I installed new ones,I still think one is bad.That would explain the rough idle,engine shaking,the little bit of smoke from the tail pipes,and,the "rattling" like detonation.Thoughts?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: JeremyB on October 09, 2007, 09:32:16 PM
Do a cylinder balance test and see if anything comes up weak (If you are SEFI). Then do a compression or leakdown test.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 09, 2007, 09:34:36 PM
I'm having it done at 9:00 in the morning.News following afterwards.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: ZondaC12 on October 09, 2007, 10:02:31 PM
Aight man sounds good im prayin for ya!!! I know how ya feel last winter when I couldnt get er goin after the H.O. conversion I seriously had thoughts of taking it somewhere too! One stupid little wire....course in ur case it may be more than that but still not knowing whats up is not not knowing whats up the specifics dont matter being clueless and confused sux.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: CougarSE on October 10, 2007, 12:11:24 AM
Vinnie I hate to sound harsh but you are going about this the way we try to keep people from going about things!

No codes pulled?  No compression test?  No Vacuum readings??
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 08:00:50 AM
The codes,compression test,and all other checks are being done this morning at 9:00 as I stated a couple of times above.I'm having the shop do it ALL,so,if there are any other problems,I'll know,and can take care of them.I still think it's a head gasket,but,I'm not changing anything until the car has been fully checked out.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 01:28:54 PM
It appears that it needs shims for the roller rockers.I'm doing that now.More news soon.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 04:47:58 PM
Shims installed.The car will now go sideways.....literally.Nice.I'm happy now,and I'm going to celebrate by working on my secret Explorer upper intake project.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: daboss351 on October 10, 2007, 04:53:32 PM
so is the e303 in there or no?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 06:23:02 PM
No,the H.O cam is back in.No offers for the E303,so,it may find it's way back in the car soon.It's really not a big deal to swap the cam.I may need to find a higher stall converter first.I've heard that one is needed,and I've also heard from a guy here in town who has spent years building Fox Mustangs for street and race,that the factory converter will work fine.Not the optimum choice for performance,but it will work fine.I'm looking for more definitive info on the matter.I just came in from installing the 65mm throttlebody.Now,I'm basking in my happiness.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: daboss351 on October 10, 2007, 06:25:48 PM
I would just throw it in. Glad to hear you got it going like its suppose to!
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 06:39:45 PM
I don't want to just "throw it in" until I have some more data.I want things to work as they should.I made a mistake forgetting the shims for my rollers until Kitz PM-d me with that idea (Thanks Kitz).The cam may just find it's way back in.We'll see.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 10, 2007, 07:01:26 PM
At least it was something simple:D
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 07:06:13 PM
Ultra simple.Now,I'm going to kick back and enjoy the evening,drink sweet tea,and watch TV.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 10, 2007, 07:08:41 PM
I want to think everyone for the time and effort you gave trying to help me get this problem fixed.Thanks guys.Drink up,Daboss is buying.........he just doesn't know it yet.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: daboss351 on October 10, 2007, 08:08:30 PM
I ment throw it in, like keep it around don't get rid of it.
What am I buying? I got rum in the basp00get that good enough guys?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 11, 2007, 12:22:12 AM
Right now,the cam is in a nice oily enviroment staying safe until I decide what I'm going to do.I have a few other projects lined up for tomorrow.Install the stereo,tranny cooler lines,clean up the interior,and a couple of other things.I'm back in the swing of things and have my motivation back...................finally.
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: Innes on October 11, 2007, 03:38:22 AM
Man I reading more of this now and listen to the head work you got I was thinking shims, had to do this to mine- GT40 irons .040 milled off and a .039 HG while I was rebuilding it looked like it was at 0 lash w/no hydraulic movement in the lifters so I went to the local speed shop (S&K) and got .030 shims I wanted .020 or .010 but they said they don’t have them
Either way the 30 worked out and the car is running fine I just wish I could get less hydraulics in the lifters

What size shim did you get?
Title: Engine problems with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on October 11, 2007, 07:59:26 AM
Honostly,I'm not sure what the shims are.I THINK they are 30's as well.I installed them under the roller rocker fulcrum,and PRESTO,a whole new beast.Today,I'm all about stereo and tranny cooler with a little intake on the side.I'm not wanting to do anything that I have to really apply myself.Just relaxing.